Identification: Paperbark Maple

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Maiden, Jun 14, 2020.

  1. Maiden

    Maiden New Member

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    Hi, I wanted to post a picture of a maple seedling I found under my female mature tree to make sure it is a paperbark. I potted him this morning but right now he isn't looking too healthly. :(
    My neighbour has an extremely large Norway and as we know, they are invasive so I wondered if this seedling is from my Acer Griseum.
    I have about 8 other smaller seedlings but the leaves haven't split...I see on this bigger fellow that the first leaves on him aren't split either.
    Posting a couple pictures of those as well...the chili seeds help keep the squirrels out!
    Thanks.
     

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  2. Acerholic

    Acerholic Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society

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    @Maiden Hi, first of all the leaves are nothing like Acer Platanoides Norway maple, but do bear similarities to Acer Griseum. They are rather difficult to grow and are rather temperamental, so you may lose a couple. But do persevere as it is a wonderful tree as you obviously know.

    IMO I do think you need to wait a little longer for better ID.

    D
     
  3. Maiden

    Maiden New Member

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    Yes I was thinking that since the first one is definitely a paperbark but the others are quite a bit smaller. Glad they aren't Norway, that's a start!
     
  4. AlainK

    AlainK Generous Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi "Maiden",

    When I click on your location (GTA), I get this : Google Maps

    I suppose you don't live in a garage in the Paris region ^_^

    These are probably not "Norway maples", but I think you'll have to wait at least one year to see if they're (close to) Acer griseum. And if all three pictures are the same seedling, I strongly doubt that it is a "paperbark maple".
     
  5. Maiden

    Maiden New Member

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    LOL When I click on that same link I get the Greater Toronto Area which is correct. No this is 3 trees. Only the 1st seedling I believe, is a paperbark. All the others I have, which is about 8, I'm not sure yet they're pretty small but I'm leaning toward most of those not paperbarks.
     
  6. Maiden

    Maiden New Member

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    Here's mama! Given to me by the city 7 years ago in their attempt to 'beautify'. I was allowed to make my top 3 choices and got my #1! She's grown quite a bit since then.
    I skimmed her yesterday for old samaras and found 10 or 15 still hanging on. Broke one open and it was green and viable so they all went into 'growing mix' in a baggy to begin warm stratify. Wish me luck!
     

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  7. Maiden

    Maiden New Member

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    Here is a better photo of a 'hope its a paperbark'. Also found under mama.
     

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  8. Acerholic

    Acerholic Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society

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    Beautiful tree @Maiden, good luck to you coming all the way from England.
    D
     
  9. Maiden

    Maiden New Member

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    3 people getting 3 different locations when click on the Google Maps link...is it UBC or Google? Pondering....:)....I'm in the GTA. (Greater Toronto Area) and thanks, yes I love her.
     
  10. Acerholic

    Acerholic Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society

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    Hi @Maiden, consider changing your profile to Greater Toronto Area.
    It helps people who give advice on the forum if they know an area re gardening zones etc etc.

    D
     
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  11. AlainK

    AlainK Generous Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Sounds good. It might be a bit early in the season, but at the same time, I found that maple seeds collected late in autumn are less fertile than those collected before leaf fall.

    Fingers crossed. ;-)
     
  12. Maiden

    Maiden New Member

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    There was just a few 'old' brown seeds still on the tree from last Fall so I was surprised they were viable. Most of the tree is covered in newly formed very green seeds, these aren't them. Fingers are crossed.
     
  13. emery

    emery Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi @Maiden , I'm sorry but it is a Norway Maple.

    It is very hard to distinguish seedlings from the early leaves. The first "real" set (after the cotyledons) have that pointy-oval form for any number of species.

    One way to tell that you have an A. griseum is that the young shoots and petioles (leaf stems) will be very hairy. (This is true also for other related but much rarer maples).

    Acer griseum bears both male and female flowers, so it is autofertile (monoecious). On nearly all trees almost or all of the fruit most plants produce don't contain seed; the embryo never develops in a process called parthenocarpy. There are a few, that come from a specific tree, that yield more seed, but they are jealously guarded by the nurseries. On my own plant that bears fruit, I have cut open the samaras (seed pods) to see what's there; I get a seed from every 50 empty ones.

    You can do some of this testing. The seed exteriors are very hard so I have to use secateurs. Another old trick is to soak the seed for 24 hours, then the ones that float are presumably empty.

    Sorry to be the bringer of bad news. -E
     
  14. Acerholic

    Acerholic Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society

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    Not all Paperbark maples are a success story and tbh there are a lot of failures, hence their rarity. This is mine today 17th June 2020. Lovely last few years and great Autumn 2019 show and now this. It is only 4 years old though.
    Sometimes trees die!!

    D
     

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  15. Maiden

    Maiden New Member

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    Hey no worries, I was pretty sure most of these seedlings were Norway, but someone said they weren't. Their tips are fairly pointy and the griseum is of course, softer and rounder.

    Not sure if you read my entire thread but I still think one of the seedlings is a paperbark. The 3rd set of leaves are splitting, its actually amazing to watch the difference from the first sets of leaves. Unfortunately, it is not 'hairy'? I'll attach an updated picture it here.

    As to the seeds, as I said I did crack open one taken from the mother tree a couple days ago and there was a seed inside. The seed itself had been nicked by my wire cutters and it was green inside and plump. So if your 'odds' are correct, could it be I picked the only viable seed out of about 12?

    Yes Acerholic. I know how difficult it is to grow an acer griseum, my heart would break if a 4 year old died. Thank you all, I appreciate the help.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
  16. emery

    emery Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Yes, that's a tough break D. They are a little tetchy until around 5 years, but after that Paperbarks are some of the toughest maples around. But of course, trees die, for various reasons, sometimes there's no way to know what they are. This difficulty when young is one of the reasons they aren't more frequently planted, but also until the last 15 years or so the there really wasn't much good seed around, they can't be grafted (on other than the other fairly rare maples in the Section Trifolata Series Grisea), layering is possible but complicated. And of course even getting the seed to germinate is difficult, once you've got viable seed.

    Good luck for you @Maiden , maybe you've got a tree that produces more than the usual amount of good seed. Your latest pic does look like it might be trifoliate at least, but it's too early to say much more about it. Hope you'll post another picture towards the mid-September period.

    I think letting them germinate in the ground is probably the easiest way to get seedlings from these! Cheers.
     
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  17. Acerholic

    Acerholic Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society

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    Thanks Emery, Alain said he bought two and lost one. Tbh I have chatted to large private estate workers over the tears and they plant thousands of trees, but expect at least a 10% loss. But you should see them throw the tiny saplings in a slit in the ground and just heel it in.

    As we all know this is not an exact science, however much we prepare and research etc etc. So some you lose and some you don't IMO.

    Just seen a 10 year old Griseum for sale online. Might have my name on it lol.

    D
     
  18. Maiden

    Maiden New Member

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    Thank you! I would love it if I have a 'lucky seed tree' and will collect far more seeds from her when they're ready. And ok, I will try planting them in the ground, perhaps a patch with wire fencing around to mark the spot.
    Putting a reminder on my phone to post a pic in September should this seedling survive until then. :)
     

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