Palm Import Regulations?

Discussion in 'Outdoor Tropicals' started by 10°Palms, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. 10°Palms

    10°Palms Member

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    I have a question, I was going to purchase a butia X jubaea from a nursery in california, but they don't seem to think that you can ship live plants across the border and are not willing to risk it. However I ordered 5 palms from a different nursery in california and they said they ship to Canada all the time without any problems. Does anyone know exactly what the import regulations regarding palms are? is it allowed?... does size matter? seeds obviously don't matter as long as the fruit has been removed because i have order lots of seeds.

    Thanks
    10°Palm
     
  2. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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  3. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Plants from California are under the microscope of Agriculture Canada. The big concern is SOD (Sudden Oak Death). They may be able to ship bare root in gel pack.
     
  4. 10°Palms

    10°Palms Member

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    Ok, I have found some Butia X Jubaea seeds and also Jubaea X Butia seeds. The supplier is not sure what to write on the shipping packaging. is "Clean Palm Seeds" a sufficient description for the package?.. I have received 4 orders of seeds from different places including the US. Cleaned seeds are allowed right?

    Thanks
     
  5. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Yes ... clean dry seed has a much better chance of being allowed entry into Canada. Having said that, I once had a load of Cycad seed held up in Missisauga Ontario by Customs (via Europe). The original supplier was willing to provide a phyto-sanitary certificate to assist in them being released. The document I recieved from Customs was quoted from the plant importation act. Confusing, since they where seeds and not plants. The seed act is different again. Everyone I spoke to from Victoria to Ontario had a different take on what the next course of action should be. Frustrating to say the least. After numberous calls and confusing conversations, six weeks had passed. I was at the end of my rope and made one more call to try and clear the matter. The Agent informed me "Oh, your seeds have been released and should arrive at your destination any day now."
    So if there was a problem, why where the seeds held then suddenly released after six weeks? I'll never know, and I'm sure no one there could offer a reasonable explaination.
    The more you know about the seed import act, the better off you'll be in the long run. Even still you could get a fuss pot scrutinizing your shipment and dragging out the fine detail of the wrong act.
    All other seed orders have been trouble free.

    As to your query ... "cleaned dry palm seed" should be fine on the customs declaration. Would you be willing to allow me to buy some seed from you or perhaps get in contact with the seed house?

    Cheers, LPN.
     
  6. Carol Ja

    Carol Ja Active Member 10 Years

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    I'm surprised to see that there have been problems, I so far have imported seeds from all around the world, and never had a problem. (knock on wood). I know plant material other than seeds is an issue, but I was under the assumption seeds aren't a problem as long as they aren't growing in to a plant that we aren't allowed to grow legally or without permits (like hemp).
     
  7. 10°Palms

    10°Palms Member

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    LPN,

    I will see just how many seeds they are willing to part with. I am paying $3.00 per seed which sounds like a lot however I found another supplier and they wanted $10 per seed because they only had a limited qty. as bad as i want to grow them that was too much to pay. but $3 is acceptable to me. actually it is $3 for the Butia X Jubaea and $2.50 for the Jubaea X Butia. I am going to get 20 of each. How many would you be interested in? that is of course if your ok with paying $3 per seed.

    -10°Palm
     
  8. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I'd be willing to get 20 Butia x Jubaea @ $3 each ($60) and what ever the shipping costs are. I can cut you a check or money order in advance. We can make further arrangments and details via PM or e-mail >>> laspalmasnorte at shaw dot ca

    Cheers, LPN.
     
  9. 10°Palms

    10°Palms Member

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    just incase anyone has the same question and would like to know what happened with the seeds that i ordered I thought i would just drop a note.

    I did receive the seeds for California, However they were held by customs for 2 weeks before being released. The comment of "Cleaned palm seeds no fruit" was used as well as listing the species of palm on the packaging (which is in fact a requirement for importation of seeds). The package was opened and inspected by customs. but no matter I received all of the seeds that i ordered and am pleased with the order. Now onto the germination stage. Hopefully by next year at this time I will have 20 Butia X Jubaea seedlings and 20 Jubaea X Butia seedlings. That does however require a 100% germination. I am also hoping that the butia x jubaea have multiple seeds within. I shall see.. Also LPN please keep me posted on how you do with your seeds. I would suspect that you would receive them today or tomorrow (Oct 12/13). I hope we both have great success with these seeds. I was told the viability for the butia x jubs is 2 years and the jub x but are 1 year. These seeds are very fresh.

    -10°Palms
     
  10. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    That's great! I assume you recieved my check and all is in order? It should have arrived late last week sometime. Looking forward to trying these palm seeds. We'll compare notes as we germinate these.

    Cheers, LPN.
     
  11. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    10°Palm ...
    I just got your package today. Good old snail mail. Anyway, here they are for all to see, a much sought after palm (seed anyway) Butia x Jubaea. Looking forward to giving these a go! Thanks again 10°Palm for ordering extra and having them sent my way.

    Cheers, LPN.
     

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  12. jenf

    jenf Member

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    Hi
    I just purchased some seeds from ebay, 10 butia x jubaea, they also had jubaea x butia, so I got 10 as well. About the same price, $2.50 US plus $6.00 US sgipping. Could be the same dealer?? My butia x jubaea seeds look the same as yours, hopefully I didn't get burned. The vendor said they would have more but hadn't cleaned them yet. Are you guys using the baggie method, it seems to work well for me, I'm soaking these seeds at the moment, they seem to look good.
    These seeds also came from California, labeled as clean palm seeds, gift, they took about a week regular US post. I have yet to have any problems from the states or internationally. I got some seeds from Romania in 4 days, can't pull that off at home lots of times. Good luck all. Jen
     
  13. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Hello jenf ...
    Sounds as though we're on the same track. These are much sought after seed and the price is quite fair in my opinion. I have a link to a European web site that has some great info about proagating these seeds. Can you meassage me or e-mail (islandpalmgrower@hotmail.com) for further details? If not, I understand your right to privacy.
    What else are you trying from seed?

    Cheers, LPN (Barrie)
     
  14. jenf

    jenf Member

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    Hi Barrie
    I e-mailed you.
    Thanks Jen
     
  15. 10°Palms

    10°Palms Member

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    Hi JenF,

    I am not sure that it is the same seller because of the "Gift" writing and the regular post. I know that the seller was apprehensive about shipping to me in Canada because he was unaware of the regulations, But I convinced him that it would be ok and told him if they don't make it here I will eat the cost and not blame him. His seeds were fresh aswell, he was in the process of removing the fruit at the time I was inquiring. I wish more sellers would ship regular post because it is a lot cheaper for the buyer, however some sellers just need to have that signature so that you can't say you never received them... so its insurance for the seller.

    As for your propogation question.

    I myself am not having very much luck with the baggie method. maybe too much water or too hot, bad seeds.. who knows. for the Butia X Jubaea and the Jubaea X Butia I have a Tub about 11" X 17" about 6" deep. I have put about 3" of mixed soil (Spagnum peat, Perilite. Then placed the seeds, and covered with about 1" of mixed soil. I then put a layer of vermiculite on the surface so that i can see if the soil is drying out. I am then placing the tub on a seedling heat mat which roughly heats the soil to about 85°, I am varying the temperature between 65°-85°. Not a constant heat. I asked the seller what he does and this is what he said works. Who am I to argue with a person who germinates these all the time and I want this to work. Basically he said if the humidty is right I shouldn't have to check te tub for 3-5 weeks. and should expect some activity within a couple of months and then the most action about spring.

    I don't think i will do the baggie thing again, I actually just went through 10 bags today to sift out the rotten seeds.. and then took the seeds that aren't rotten and have changed them to a similar system, although I did mix ALL of the seeds in the same tub.... So I will have some sorting to do later. on the plus side I did find a lonely Trachycarpus Takil with its first shoot coming up.

    -10°Palm
     
  16. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    10°Palm
    That's the same method I'll be using as well. The only difference is I'll be using Coconut husk fiber as a growing medium. It has all the qualities needed to germinate palm seeds and a very little chance of seed rot. I'm still soaking the seeds (3 days now) and will transfer them to the starter mix tomorrow.

    Cheers, LPN. (Barrie)
     
  17. palmera

    palmera Active Member

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    The problem I have with joining a forum like this is that just when I think I have all the seeds I want for my winter entertainment, I read a thread that perks my interest...so...are any of you willing to part with 10 seeds? Or can you hook me up with your supplier. (makes me feel naughty asking this!)

    Thanks!
     
  18. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    jenf ... can you e-mail me? or Private Message. re-seed palm seeds.
    Cheers, LPN (Barrie)
     
  19. jenf

    jenf Member

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    Barrie
    Did you receive the e-mail I sent yesterday?? I'll re-send it.
    Jen
     
  20. 10°Palms

    10°Palms Member

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    For anyone who ever wondered where all this ended up.

    here are some photo's of seedlings.

    IMG_3607.jpg
    Butia x Jubaea seedling - Germination time - 45days - Age in photo 3 months.
    IMG_3609.jpg
    Jubaea x Butia seedling - germination time - 45days - Age in photo 3 months
    IMG_3617.jpg
    Picture of a jubaea x butia that just germinated this week.

    There is definately a noticable difference between seedlings. the Butia x jubaea seems to be much slimmer than the Jubaea x Butia. The bxj also seems to be growing faster than the jxb but this is not necessarily going to be the norm since i do not have any others at this stage of development.

    For the most part I am finding the germination process of these seeds quite easy. So far about 9 of my original 20 jxb seeds have germinated in 4 months. I am finding about 1-2 per week now.

    for the bxj - they seem to be a bit more stuborn - only 4 of 20 have germinated thus far.

    I have since started more jxb and in 30 days had my first germination from that batch of about 40 seeds.

    anyways just in case anyone was interested. I have searched the internet looking for pictures of these seedlings but could not find any so thought i might post some.

    -10°Palms
     
  21. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Awesome 10°Palms! Good to hear. I guess there's hope for me yet. So far nothing on both hybrids.

    Cheers, Barrie.
     
  22. palmera

    palmera Active Member

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    And the same goes for my Butia X Jubaea seeds at this time. I did have 2 pure Jubaeas push up leaves from the same seed flat. However, the heating pad had died sometime during the process so I do not know what effect that may have, if any, on the seeds. I am anxious awaiting the emersions...
     
  23. jenf

    jenf Member

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    Same goes for my seeds, but I have some that were planted in Oct, and then I waited until January to plant the rest. I've had a really tough time keeping them warm enough over this brutal winter(we're living in a 5th wheel, while we build our house). So I decided to hold off planting the rest until the weather mellowed out a bit. I think I may get a heating mat, and try something different with these recently planted ones.
     
  24. 10°Palms

    10°Palms Member

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    just for a side note, I had originally intended on keeping my seeds between 65-85°, however, every time I add water to the tub, the temperature always soars to 105° - I have an aquarium digital thermometeter about the same depth of the seeds. ironically, when the temperature shoots up that high, I have noticed on each instance the week of the high temperatures seems to yield more germination. not sure if thats anything, but there has been no ill affect on the seeds when the temperature does reach that high. if anyone is looking for a heat mat, get a Grotek. you can get one off ebay (20"X20") for about 60$ CDN plus shipping, its shipped from Surrey. just type in grotek. This is where i got mine, JBC_DISTROBITION is the seller. They also have an actual thermometer for this unit that would regulate the temperatures, but have not gotten to that point yet. They have 3 sizes for purchase. The tub I am using is a tub my wife used to store cakes and stuff... I only found out after I helped myself to it... boy was my wife mad. Every time she bakes a cake and we goto someones house I hear about how nice it would be to have a tub to transfer the cake around in so it doesn't get ruined :).... oh well its mine now :)... if I get a chance I will post some pictures of my tub and mat setup I will....

    10°Palms
     
  25. palmera

    palmera Active Member

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    Interesting notes about the added moisture prompting germination. I had a similar experience last week. My mixed germinating flat was starting to show some dryness so I watered. I always worry that I am giving too much water. But this week many of the varied seeds have sprouted.

    I used heat pads as well. I have ordered the grotek on line but I find it less expensive/easier to pick up the "mini greenhouse" from Canadian Tire. $39.95 gets you a flat with plastic lid, heat pad and styrofoam insulating container. No shipping fee. West Coast Seeds also sells the Grotek pad in either one or two flat sizes. I was interested that they also sell tall (6") clear dome plastic flat covers, but they are unavailable at the moment. The taller domes have two top vents and are great for keeping the humidity up on the seedlings (and keeping my cat from eating them!). If anyone knows of another source of these taller covers, let me know.
     

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