Orchid ID and tips, please?

Discussion in 'Orchidaceae (orchids)' started by lorax, Jul 23, 2007.

  1. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    As I've said before, I'm very new to this (thank you for bearing with me) and I'm generally clueless.

    These are blooming in my greenhouse. Beyond that they are orchids (they have pseudobulbs and the general 3-sepals, 3-petals conformation) I'm right in the dark. These are tiny (maybe 2cm across if that) on spikes that have been getting taller. The plant has thrown two spikes.

    What are they, please, how do I avoid killing them, and how do I make more?

    Thanks!
     

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    Last edited: Jul 23, 2007
  2. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Can you give us a photo of the leaves of the plant so we can attempt to confirm the tribe? These appear to be species orchids.
     
  3. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    I have shown your photos to Steve Marak who is well acquainted with rare orchids. Since you are from Ecuador you appear to have a very unusual species. Steve has listed some things we would like to know in order to attempt an identification:

    "Photos of the leaves will help. Since the oster says it has pseudobulbs and not
    a stem, I assume it's sympodial. From the first image, it looks like it's
    unifoliate, and that the infloresence arises from the rhizome or somewhere
    low rather than terminally from a pseudobulb, but it would be nice to know
    both those things for sure.

    Also whether the pseudobulbs are smoothly rounded (ovoid in cross section)
    or if the perchance are sharply angled (roughly triangular or square in
    cross section), and the overall size of the individual flowers and the
    leaves and pseudobulbs ... and whether there's any fragrance ..."


    In addition, there is a great company in Ecuador that collects and exports rare species orchids. They have a good website with lots of photos. I plan tomorrow to try to use their site to find this species but you may wish to check it yourself at:
    http://www.ecuagenera.com/epages/wh...h=/Shops/ecuagenera/Categories/Orchid_Species

    The site does not have any small photos so you'll have to open each and every species in order to view the photos. But there are some very unusual specimens on their site.
     
  4. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Thanks, Steve! I'm off to the greenhouse with my ruler, camera, and tripod...
     
  5. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    I just checked all the orchid photos on Ecuagenera and your plant did not appear in their group. They have added "thumbnails" since the last time I checked their site. But I did find this interesting notice which may be of value to you. Apparently there will soon be an orchid conference in Ecuador. Perhaps, if we don't get lucky before, you can take your photo to that conference for an identifiction:

    Following the great success in both participation and quality of the First Scientific Conference on Andean Orchids, held in Gualaceo, Ecuador November 11-13, 2005, the Second Scientific Conference on Andean Orchids is set to be held in Loja, Ecuador November 15-17 2007. The conference is being organized by the Universidad Tcnica Particular de Loja (UTPL) in conjunction with Ecuagenera Cia., Ltda. The enhanced format of the conference includes a poster presentation and lecture sessions in the areas of systematics, ecology, and conservation, the daily themes of the conference. There will also be an international orchid show parallel to the conference, opening November 14. The show is entitled Mountains of Orchids and hopes to display 1000 species in flower. All will take place in the modern buildings and conference center housed at UTPL.
     
  6. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Nice! I'm only 45 minutes from Loja; I'll definitely be going to that.

    Here are some more detailed pictures, with lovely rulers in them to give accurate sizes.

    The leaves are huge, more than 18" tall and about 4" wide, and as you said they are sympoidal.
    Pseudobulbs are almost round in cross-section, with little to no ridging, about 3" tall.
    Inflorescence is indeed coming from the rhizome, and upon inspection there's another one coming. (We must be doing something right...) Each inflorescence is about 8" tall and getting taller daily.
    Flowers are just over 1" at the widest point, and there about 25 on each inflorescence. There's no real fragrance, just the pleasant musty smell of the orchid moss it's growing in.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2007
  7. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Here are the other two photos; the forum won't let me post more than 5 at a crack.
     

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  8. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Let me send this link to Steve and one other expert grower. I've also sent your first photos directly to a contact at Ecuagenera in hopes they will recognize the species.

    You obviously have a beautiful and unusual orchid specimen. And you are correct, the leaves are enormous! At first glace I'd say it is in the Oncidium tribe but that remains to be confirmed.

    And by the way, yep, you're doing something right! You should be telling people on this board how to grow orchids!!
     
  9. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Yeah, move to Ecuador, water daily. lol!

    That said, how do I go about propagating this orchid? It is really lovely, and I'd like to grow more, especially if it's rare or endangered.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2007
  10. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    First, let's figure out what it may be! Check to see if you can find a photo of Acineta erythroxantha. It appears to be in that group if not that species. Those orchids are definitely found in your country down through Peru.
     
  11. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    The more I dig into this one the more I'm convinced your orchid is in the genus Acineta. Check this link and then tell me your opinion:

    http://stanhopea.autrevie.com/Acineta.html

    If this is what you are growing it should be easy to divide, thus producing new specimens. As you likely know, there is an "assigned" insect in your country whose job is to pollinate this species. The male of that insect species is probably attracted to the flower thinking he senses the scent of the female of his species. Orchids are great imitators of the pheromones of insects. The male thus carries pollen to other plants of the same species. Since you have more than one inflorescence, you may get lucky and get pollination. But getting the seeds to grow is a major undertaking. So be prepared to do your homework.

    I found a few plants of this genus being offered for $200 and up! If I were your neighbor I'd be trying to buy one from you!!
     
  12. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    I'd say sure, it's Acineta, but the inflorescence is upright and not pendant. However, the flower shape is very very similar.... I'll keep digging as well.
     
  13. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Let us know what you uncover.
     
  14. GordonK2

    GordonK2 Member

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    After reviewing the RHS "Manual of Orchids' pages 2 & 3, the illustrations would confirm your ID of Acineta, your photos and their drawings coincide beautifully. sp.epithet ??.
    Very well done.
     
  15. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    GordonK2, I don't have the book you cited. I have looked at all the Acineta species I can locate in my library and can't find a match to these photos. Do you have a suggested possible scientific identification? I'd love to be able to help Lorax solve this little mystery.
     
  16. GordonK2

    GordonK2 Member

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    Will keep trying in my library and other sources first thing in the morning. Thanks for responding.
    GordonK2
     
  17. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Well, before we all jump to conclusions too quickly, let's step back and approach this more scientifically as did my friend and orchid grower Steve Marak. Here are his notes from this morning:

    "I had considered Acineta, not because I'm familiar with that genus but by
    pure chance I came across a reference while looking for something else.
    But two things bothered me.

    One is that I found several descriptions of Acinetas as having plicate
    leaves, and the pictures of the foliage of this plant don't show that.
    There may be slight folding, but it's definitely not pronounced.

    I also found several references to Acinetas as having pendant
    inflorescences, and several others recommended growing in hanging baskets.
    The infloresence of this plant is clearly upright.

    That doesn't mean there isn't an Acineta species which is atypical, of
    course. But the flowers didn't look quite right to me either for some
    reason, so I'm continuing to look.

    This thing still looks familiar for some reason. Since I do read every
    article on every oddball genus I come across, it's entirely possible that
    I have seen it, not that that means I can put my finger on the name".


    So is it truly a part of the genus Acineta? There are some questions that need to be answered before we can commit. Who knows? Maybe you have a very unusual species! But at least we have some other people who are interested in solving the puzzle.
     
  18. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Well, it's definitely not plicate. I've got plicate species growing in the greenhouse, and although the longitudinal veins in the mystery plant's leaves are pronounced, they're not folded.
     
  19. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Who knows! You may have a new genus and/or species as well! But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Can you tell us where you located this specimen. Was it a wild collected specimen? If it is something unusual, new or rare that information can be very important to a botanist wishing to study the species.
     
  20. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    I located it in my greenhouse - I only just moved into this place and it already had fairly well established gardens and plantings. However, I am close to several cloud-forest environments. If it's useful, I'm between 1700 m and 1800 m above sea level. I will see what I can do about contacting previous tenants - perhaps I can find out who got it, and where they got it from... I believe it to have been wild at one point.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2007
  21. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    From the reading I've been doing I would have guessed you were at approximately that elevation. Just in case you've got something not previously identified to science, and I don't know for sure that it is or isn't, any information about where it was originally collected would be most helpful.

    I've sent your link to several rare orchid collectors so hopefully someone will be able to help you find a name. If not, be sure and take it to the orchid conference (or a bunch of photos). Someone there will know what it is, or may be able to help you have a botanist research it for you further. The people at Ecuagenera, who are one of the sponsors of the conference, are excellent at finding out the names of unusual species.
     
  22. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Thanks. I've been perusing the online dictionaries of orchids of the world, but I've yet to find anything close. However, I've only made it to species beginning with D. I shall forge onwards!
     
  23. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    This morning I received a response from Gilberto, on of the experts at Ecuagenera in Ecuador, on this orchid. Their response indicates this is likely Xylobium ornatum. They did include this note, "the coloration doesn't fit the one we have in cultivation because it is darker, but I think that the coloration could be chance for the conditions." So perhaps you now have a new place to begin to do some research.

    Hope this helps.
     
  24. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Helps immensely! I'd been going though alphabetically; it would have taken years for me to get to X. From the pictures I've been able to find, I think that it's definitely a Xylobium; I'll get confirmation from the local orchidarium just to be sure it's not a different species.

    Thanks a Zillion!
     
  25. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    It's fun to try to track them down! Well, it is if you finally figure out a name!
     

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