I'm looking for a new tree to place at the corner of my house. Morning sun with filtered afternoon. If it helps, I'm moving my Orange Dream from this spot as it is bleaching out and getting some burn due to afternoon sun. Anyway, I'm looking for a dissectum with priorities being fall color, vigor and something relatively out of the mainstream. I've been looking at Orangeola and Baldsmith. Thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks. McHoop
I really like your two choices. The orangeola is supposed to be pretty sun hardy (I have one on the way for fall) and no problem so far with sun tolerance of my baldsmith. While it may not be considered out of the mainstream, I also don't think you could go wrong with a waterfall.
I have recently had a similiar discussion. This might give you some ideas. http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=40077
I suggest you spend some time on learning about the plant that you have interest in rather than basing what you may want solely on the name of it. If your Orange Dream is having some trouble in that setting then you may be required to know which dissectum you want there that will not also have the same issues. Orangeola and Baldsmith along with Octopus all came from pretty much the same grower in Oregon. I like all three of them used in a landscape but they are not all equal in what their growing needs are and what conditions they can be grown in. As an example, if you have some salt buildup issues in your soil, you may not want to have two of the three dissectums mentioned above. You may not want to have any of the variegated dissectums as you will have problems with salt burn. Cold tolerance or cold intolerance may be an issue for exposed plants and one of the three Maples above is more cold sensitive than the other two Maples are. Then when you decide on a name of a Maple you want, how do you know you will be getting the right plant of it? You are better off to see the Maple you want to have prior to buying it and setting it in the ground rather than watch it have some trouble growing there or perhaps succumb to the elements. It is foolish in the long run for you to go out and plant a one gallon sized tree (possibly a three year old grafted plant) in a landscape and think it will thrive for you. With that in mind you have pretty much eliminated most of the mail order catalog nurseries in that you may want to have a five gallon to plant in the landscape in Indiana but only a handful of mail order nurseries can send you a five to seven year old Maple. If you want to have a better chance of succeeding with your newest plant then you can contact two people in this forum that may be able to sell you a plant of the right size and right age to fill your landscape spot and give your Maple a much better chance of prospering there. In Maples buying on the cheap has its rewards in that we can buy more plants per dollar expense than we get from one plant that costs as much as three to four of the lesser plants. The issue for you is how many of those less inexpensive plants will live for you beyond ten years of you having them. The five gallon plant is much closer to the age in which it takes a lot more to kill the plant than cultural and growing issues can to harm the younger plants. The older plant generally has endured some of the stresses that the younger plants will have some trouble with. Morning sun with afternoon dappled shade, then you may want to consider two of the old dependable dissectums such as Ever Red and Ornatum. You cannot go wrong with either providing you buy these two Maples from a proven source for growing excellence. You have two people in this forum that have access to plants from such a grower. It is foolhardy to buy from anyone else unless you can see the plant prior to your purchase. The name Baldsmith loses a lot of its luster when and if you lose the plant before the Maple gets to the age whereby you can enjoy the coloration and stature of it year after year. Some areas can plant one gallon Maples into the ground and see them prosper later on but what we are seldom told of is the number of Maples that did not last long for them. Add in three throwaway Maples at $25 each that you just lost or will lose helps make that $100 expense for a five gallon look a whole lot better. Besides, nurseries think in terms that a much higher percentage of one to three year old grafted trees will not live long enough to see their seventh year. The five gallon Maple has already gotten there and is ready to go into the ground. When you get it up to ten years old it is generally what we did to the plant that harms it much more than the plant perishing due to the elements or in some cases due to disease. You do what you want but this forum does not have many members that have had Maples as long as that five gallon Maple will be in age. What will their survivability rate be with these plants once they start to lose a few of their Maples and then it hits home when they realize it was not all the plants fault for why they lost it. It was due to not knowing what not to do for that particular Maple. The name tells us nothing unless we are more than familiar with that plant but the plant in person even without a name can tell us much more. It does bother me to read how some people write in terms of how great a Maple is that has only been around for less than 10 years. How do they know anything about that plant yet? It is still too young to know what it will do later. There have been a lot of pretty dissectums, many of them were named in the late 80's and 90's that are no longer available for resale . What does that tell us about that pretty plant? It didn't make it, did not live long enough to become widespread in the nursery industry, yet people will still want it only because of the name of it. I've got a dissectum that can yield Spring growth palmate leaves and then those leaves will later become dissected on a cascading plant but since it is an old Maple no one would have interest in it but give that plant a new name and watch what interest there will be in it rather soon. "I want it" but you cannot have it. It is not for sale. Now try to find that old Maple in Oregon - good luck and yet in the early 80's several growers had it available but only a few could keep it alive long enough to sell it, let alone have a 12-20 year old stock plant of it on hand for everyone to see. Today we have several Maples out and about that have no tried and true, proven stock plants but are three to five year old plants raided for their wood every year just to sell the liners because that is where the quick money is, in that not yet determined proven Maple with a new, catchy name. Orangeola, Baldsmith and Octopus have been around since the mid 80's. Now, tell me why they have not gained as much in popularity as they should have? It is not that they were not available to people in Oregon and later on to people in Washington and had a quality mail order source nursery involved to move plants, it is just that few people had good luck with those young plants but those people that did have good luck with those plants as they aged in years are generally not the ones we have to go to now to get one. Now, we have people getting wood in that will graft the plants, perhaps never having a stock plant of it, as there is no need to any more for quick online sales, that have become "plant pushers" just like some nursery people are, to accommodate their customers requests wanting the name of the Maple rather than selling a bona fide plant of it by that name. Jim
we have a waterfall its in the direct sun from early am till about 100pm holds up great we live on the south coast of mass and it gets pretty hot here . if you want to see apic of this tree we recently post one under the heading veridis or waterfall,it was a 20 gallon tree and we planted it in spring early april
Most of the dissectums will do pretty well for most people. The problem is getting them up to the age in which they will more easily adapt. Novel plants of the dissectum group have always been some of the most sought after Maples. Personally, they are my favorite group of the palmatum type plants. The issue is that some of the newly named cultivars are quite interesting but they have not yet gone the test of time to show us what all they can do in a growing season. If I did not like Chantilly Lace, as an example, I would not already have one. I know what others are saying but this Maple is too young yet to get a feel for how it will grow in a variety of climates. I am not convinced yet that this Maple will make a standard landscape tree for most people. Time will tell us more. One thing that always has been apparent in some of the dissectum Maples is that some were meant to be standard nursery trade plants and others were meant more to be collection plants. The reason for the latter is that some people will have trouble growing it where they are. When we have to keep a Maple under shade cloth because of what it will do out in the sun or in dappled shade or from salts in the soil, then we have a Maple that probably never will develop into being a decent landscape plant. If the plant cannot do well in an array of growing situations then it will not become widespread in the nursery trade. Does not mean that we may not think the world of it where we are but others will not care for the Maple if they cannot keep it alive or have years of frustration growing it. It has always been that way that some dissectums grow better in some areas far better than they do in others. We are limited where I am to see several of the dissectums flourish. Does not mean that we cannot get lucky with a few of them but we have to make a little more of an effort with some of these just so they can hang in there for us until they get some age to them and better adapt for our growing conditions. We cannot always equate how a plant will do from one area to another and if we look around in Oregon we can see some of this pretty readily. Why some areas have trouble with some of the green dissectums and why other areas have problems with the reds. The variegated forms as a group have trouble no matter where they are grown with Ao shidare variegated probably being (has been the most consistent grower over the years) the most adaptable Maple in a landscape of the variegated group. A while back I mentioned how good some of the Red Dragons looked that were coming in from an Oregon grower to a retail nursery here. Compared to the Red Dragon that first came into California those plants were all far superior to anything we've ever had before. That makes a huge difference to see plants come in of the sizes ours in the ground are but we had some losses with those early proprietary plants to get those two or three plants out of eleven to get to those sizes of those Maples that came in years later. Time has its own value and when we see plants come in from another nursery that were of the same age as the trees we have left it makes us wonder why couldn't we have waited to buy one of those rather than endure the grief of losing eight of them over several years just to end up with three landscape plants that were equal or slightly better than what was coming into us now but we learned along the way what that Maple may require to grow well here and some of those truly marvelous plants from Oregon may have some of the same issues we learned the hard way once they are put into the ground is what I cautioned myself before I could buy one of them at $359 for one of the younger ones. The best plant had a retail price tag of $7,500 and felt at the time it was worth the money but it will have to be a select individual that would want it. A few of them that I know of have had some issues the last few years in the ground with salt burn, sun scorch and wind desiccation in the landscape around here develop already, just exactly what I cautioned myself over before I could pay the money and buy one of them. For Indiana find out or try to learn which dissectums have done well for most people that have had them. See a plant in the nursery that you may want and then ask around how that Maple does in your area. Don't be surprised or dismayed that others may not know but try to know that plants limitations before you buy it. Of the Orangeola, Baldsmith, Octopus and Chantilly Lace, as choices, I would prefer the Octopus for around here to go into a landscape. Why? It will adapt faster to our growing conditions than the others have (so far). Jim
