Ontario to ban cosmetic pesticides

Discussion in 'Garden Pest Management and Identification' started by Durgan, Apr 21, 2008.

  1. jimweed

    jimweed Active Member 10 Years

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    Glyphosate is the only active ingredient in Round Up. I am not aware of Round Up ever being detrimental to spiders and insects. But,,,

    Sometimes all it takes is over hearing your neighbor saying he heard that his cousins friends uncle's brothers co-workers friend sprayed Round Up and all the Spiders died. Then possibly some environmentalists may right documentation on this fact on their website and push for its mass banning across a Country. This might be the reason it is not used in France? I am just kidding! I wasn't aware it was not to be used in France. Won't be long and it will be banned here in BC too.
     
  2. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Well, here's a bit of anecdotal evidence for you.

    My brother, at 24 or 25, was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. At the time, that was a 50% chance of death (now, it seems like it is more like 33%). What helped contribute to the increased risk?

    Eight years older than me, he had more responsibility on the family farm than I did (a business my family was exiting by the time I was graduating from high school). Included among these was the spraying of herbicides - including 2,4-D.

    From the National Institutes of Health:

    Did his exposure to it cause it? No one will ever know. But it's mighty suspicious...
     
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  3. jimweed

    jimweed Active Member 10 Years

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    Daniel, I am sorry to hear of your brothers illness. Your right no one will ever know. But if it makes farmers feel any less at risk;

    http://www.envbio.uoguelph.ca/pdf/persistence.pdf If you read the 2nd paragraph written here by The Center for Toxicology at the U of Guelph about the largest study done on this issue, there has been no higher risk for Saskatchewan farmers then non farmers contracting NHL.

    I have read too much info on that study done on Kansas farmers raising awareness of the toxicity of 2,4-D. It is just to bad for the 2,4-D opponents that:

    Early studies that purported an association between 2,4-D and NHL (e.g., Kansas, Nebraska) were not validated by later studies (e.g., Iowa, Minnesota). Hoar, 1986 2; Zahm, 1990 3;Cantor, 1992 4; The case-control studies were critically weakened by differential exposure perceptions among respondents. And all the studies were critically weakened by undocumented exposure to a specific herbicide. A recent NCI published paper, (De Roos,2003) 5, completed a re-analysis of the Kansas and Nebraska farm worker studies andreported, “This analysis of the pooled data found no association with having ever used 2,4-D.” The weight of evidence from these NCI studies is that 2,4-D is not a carcinogen. This link is to that article http://www.24d.org/background/24D-Backgrounder-Toxicology.pdf

    In short that study was found to be bias and non factual. It is known that all Kansas farmers who were subject to the study were never even asked if they had used any other chemicals besides 2,4-D. This study was a farce completed once again by a group of bullies trying to discredit the use of 2,4-D. I wish I still had copy's of the case studies done after showing that this could have been considered as illegal. Plenty of info online for who ever wishes to read it.

    This link below can give some idea of test results of the toxicity of 2,4-D on the environment eg. (birds, fish, frogs, worms, ect.)

    http://www.24d.org/background/24D-Backgrounder-EnvirTox.pdf

    I am sorry if I offend anyone, but I feel it is my right to stand up for what I believe.
    Banning the use of chemicals on residential properties will cause chemical companies to lose 2% of sales, no big deal. But wait until the governments start banning mass use on agriculture, then the war will be on and the bullies will then have their hands full trying to discredit all the studies done. No one listen to the little guy like me, my voice is not loud. I do not believe that the world should have to live by my rules and my rules only, I am thankful not to be a bully!
     
  4. Durgan

    Durgan Contributor 10 Years

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    Integrated Pest Management is a all encompassing euphemism for 'whatever it takes' to control undesirable bugs.

    People usually take the path of least resistance, when it comes to pests, and the hardware stores have a whole wall of killer products, complete with pictures of bugs on the labels.

    Sometimes I have an urge to strangle the individual spraying a lawn in my area. I can smell the spray, and often see some vegetable garden damage from the airborne particles of the poison.

    All the 'ciders' have to be more tightly controlled-period.
     
  5. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    I respect what you have to say, jimweed - and I appreciate that it's possible to respectfully disagree with you without any hurt feelings.

    So, here's my rebuttal to the two bits above.

    First of all, here's the editorial in that issue with the Wigle study (the one that the UoG refers to being the largest):

    and to quote from it:

    and then goes on to later state that the study didn't look for what kinds of herbicides were used, but does state that 2,4-D accounted for 75% of the weight of all herbicide-active ingredients...

    As for the de Roos study from 2003, here's the link to the abstract, which I'll repeat:

    and, to quote from the paper, which both supports what you've stated and what I've stated:

     

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  6. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    I very much disagree with this statement.


    What is Integrated Pest Management?

     
  7. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Ain't statistics grand? Until there's a conclusive study one way or the other, I'm sticking to elbow grease and chickens as my main pest control methods.
     
  8. Durgan

    Durgan Contributor 10 Years

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    Thanks Dan. I gave the pithy description of IPM. You presented the political version. The definitions are identical from where I sit.
     
  9. jimweed

    jimweed Active Member 10 Years

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    Thank you for reading my somewhat opinionated responses. We are all equal to have our own ideas and values of what is considered tolerable heath risks. From skydiving to rock climbing to closing your windows when a neighbor has his lawn sprayed. Whatever we as individuals feel is the right thing to do is whats important. I respect everyone and everything they have to say. The diversity of humans is what makes walking out my door every morning such great thing.

    I have a lot of practical experience using pesticides around residential properties. I don't like is myself. To be honest with you I wish the next ban would be around residential stratas. I just cannot feel good about treating common areas with any product. Just so you know if I see a dog toy or any evidence of children that I do not treat that unit with anything for any reason. Besides the landscaper must need some weeding to do.

    Mr. Durgan, yes tightly controlled use of pesticides should be a must. And chemical companies add that smell for the sole purpose of identifying it use, this is a good thing. Each chemical has a different Oder.

    There are many ways of controlling weeds, pest, and disease using extreme minimal amounts of pesticides (if their even required at all) applied in the safest manner. It just takes responsible applicators to recognize the wheres and whens. Convincing people not to spray can be an art in itself, I take pride in preserving our insect population. I was even thinking about starting a coalition to ban the use of larvicides to save the Mosquito! Ok that sentence was a joke.
     
  10. jimmyq

    jimmyq Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    As a licensed pesticide applicator and dispenser it is mandated for us to suggest the least toxic methods first and foremost, I have been involved with IPM for a number of years, most of the garden centers and schools locally teach IPM as a guideline. IPM does not coincide with complete pesticide bans, it sets population limits, level of infestation and action control levels for pesticide or other control method usage.

    I still think that consumers can have the soaps etc, let the licensed, trained and tested professionals have the other products at their discretion for control of unnaceptable pest populations.
     

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