Not too sure about some trees...

Discussion in 'Plants: Identification' started by lettuce, Jun 18, 2008.

  1. lettuce

    lettuce Active Member

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    the story goes: yesterday it was a day outside for biology students here, went for a walk throught some of the parks, professors telling us names of trees and bushes.
    I didn't quite agree with some of their determinations (they were correct for the rest, certainly) . They just said it's what it is, never said what literature they used to determine the trees. I use that Tree Guide by Johnson & More, and when I checked for details on certain trees it just didn't add up to what they had claimed.
    These were the trees:

    #1, 2, 3, 4 - On the first two I'd say these are Thuja plicata, second pair is Thuja occidentalis. They said Thuja occidentalis for the first pair, didn't comment on the second.
    The book cleary states for T.plicata:"glossy drooping sprays... dull yellowish/white-green streaks beneath."
    and for T.occidentalis: "Under-leaves uniformly yellowish: no white marks." and [cones]"abundant, yellowing the whole crown". Also, in comparison to T.plicata: "hardier, but much smaller plant"
    Is the first one really a T.occidentalis??? It can't be?

    #5, 6, 7 - I'd say Morus alba 'Pendula'? They claimed Morus nigra? I noticed black fruit specific to M.nigra and the leaves did feel a bit rough but other than that... Googled for mulberry leaves, consulted the book: didn't find any black mulberry leaves so lobed (dissected on saplings??). Also the book comments on black mulberry's broad, sharp, purple buds, these were just small, spiky and brownish.
    ???

    #8, 9 - Are both Picea pungens? Second photo (the last one) shows foliage of the tree to the left. The moment I saw it, a picture of stiff and spiky needles formed in my head, one that I've seen so many times which represents Picea pungens. Could the left one be Picea pungensand the right one Picea pungens f. glauca?

    I'm really sorry if I've made it alot to read... I just can't rest knowing (or not knowing) that these trees weren't determined correctly;) Thanx!!!
     

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    Last edited: Jun 20, 2008
  2. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Yep, first is Thuja plicata, and second is T. occidentalis, you're right both times ;-)

    Yep, right on Morus alba too. The smooth, shiny leaf is characteristic of this, while M. nigra has rough, matt leaves.

    Probably right on the Picea pungens too, though I'd like to see a higher resolution close-up photo of the foliage to be certain.
     
  3. lettuce

    lettuce Active Member

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    Yes, I knew it, knew they got it wrong. Didn't want to say anything with other students being confused with so many latin names as it is (they're not into trees much).. guess they learned it wrong. Oh well, I'll talk to the professors tomorrow.

    Gotta admit, they really got me stunned with this one. Tell me, is it possible for a Morus nigra to have lobed leaves (like Morus alba). Of course, I'll talk to them about this one as well. And, what should I say if they present black fruit as their "proof" it's actually a Morus nigra? It's common for a white mulberry to have black fruit, right?

    As for the spruce... will do, probably tomorrow evening, don't have any photos with me right now...
     
  4. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    God luck with the Prof.!

    Morus nigra can have lobed leaves, but does so less often than M. alba; they also tend on average to be relatively broader than M. alba, but with a fair amount of overlap. Ripe fruit colour isn't a useful character, it can be dark purple to black in both. The best distinction is the leaf texture, with M. nigra being rough, matt and pubescent, while M. alba is smooth, glossy and glabrous or only finely downy.
     
  5. bjo

    bjo Active Member 10 Years

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    I'm with you and Michael- it is Morus alba and the variety pendula has a high proportion of lobed leaves - sometimes almost fig-like. As Michael says the fruits can be a very dark purple colour. I am not aware of a weeping variety of Morus nigra.

    Go easy on the prof....we all make mistakes!

    BrianO
     
  6. lettuce

    lettuce Active Member

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    I can't thank you guys enough! Will let you know how it went with the prof. and will post spruce photos (hi-res) later tomorrow....

    sure thing, I always have that in mind;)
     
  7. M. D. Vaden

    M. D. Vaden Active Member 10 Years

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    This is why I wouldn't want to teach college.

    The whole class combined often knows more than the one instructor...

    LOL

    Just for fun, and to get a few ISA CEUs, I'm going to repeat an ID class at the local college next winter.

    Probably evergreen ID. It was one of my favorite classes, particularly due to the time of year and walking around outside.
     
  8. Silver surfer

    Silver surfer Generous Contributor 10 Years

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    Thank you Lettuce, for your enthusiasm and thirst for knowledge. Please keep asking questions here, that way I also learn from the experts, who all give so generously with their help and id tips. Just wish I had started learning some of this "stuff" many years ago.
     
  9. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Lettuces do tend to be thirsty.
     
  10. lettuce

    lettuce Active Member

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    :)nice comments

    Michael, here's a hi-res photo of spruce foliage you requested. Second one is photo of the tree's bark.

    Does this confirm it's a Picea pungens?
     

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  11. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Yes it does, thanks!
     

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