New orchard - some whips growing, some not

Discussion in 'Fruit and Nut Trees' started by andrewj, Jan 13, 2008.

  1. andrewj

    andrewj Member

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    I hope I can find some help here! I have asked a few other places with no luck.

    I have a one acre orchard with about 140 apple whips. the land is primarily clay but with good drainage. They are over 2 years in the ground, and were planted as whips. By now, most are branched out. Some are well branched, some are just still whips - maybe a little thicker than when I got them, but with no branching or other expected growth.

    the scions are worked on to two types of rootstocck - M111 and Bud 111. I can tell no appreciable difference in the size of the trees based on the difference in rootstock. the trees came from stark bros.

    The orchard is irrigated with drip lines.

    Before planting the orchard, I took soil samples which required lime to bring the ph to the recommended degree. Over the course of the last two seasons I have added the recommended fertilizer and even tried fertigation with miracle grow concentrate.

    So the trees get enough sun, and water.

    Is there something I could try that would help with root growth? Does phosporus help with root growth? I have a feeling the roots just aren't growing like they should, causing the tree to be stunted.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2008
  2. biggam

    biggam Active Member

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    http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/hort/breeders/appleroots/Factsheets/FSAccess.htm
    See above link for apple rootstock descriptions. The ones you have are possibly MM.111 and Bud.118; there will not be much size difference, but Bud.118 may bear fruit sooner, and both should be suitable for your soil type. I would limit watering to times of extended rainless periods only. You probably do not have to fertilize much with a mostly clay soil; what did your soil test identify besides pH? Phosporous is important for root growth, but the time to add it to your orchard was pre-planting, as was for liming. Did you cut back your whips at the time of planting? Cutting back to 30"-36" is what you'd want to do to encourage your first branches to form at the height of 24"-34". This is my take on your situation: bare-root trees from a nursery arrive having had much of their root-system removed when dug at the nursery; your trees were planted without cutting back the whips, resulting in a higher proportion of top to root; after leafing-out the plants' energy went into growing roots to balance with the top; generous watering has made the roots grow into the surrounding soil (rather than downward, searching for moisture,) leaving them exposed to fluctuating temperature, moisture, and possibly lacking certain nutrients that are available in the subsoil.
     
  3. andrewj

    andrewj Member

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    First, thanks for responding!

    Next, I intend to reduce the watering from irrigation to just dry times.

    The soil sample indicated I needed N, P, and K. I limed the orchard the year of planting, and added fertilizer locally to each tree. This is a potential area for error I suppose.

    I cut all the whips back, but only half were cut at belt buckle heighth - the rest were cut taller than that, around 48 inches. I did this against advice. I'm certainly sorry now as the feathers/scaffolds on those 48 inchers are too high. So this could have limited root growth as well?

    Planting. All trees were planted wth a 12 inch auger. The sides of the hole were scarified with a shovel. I noticed the layer of topsoil was thin - I now worry this may limit the nutrients the trees may take up. What can I do? I just finished spreading about 200 pounds of urea over the entire field.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2008
  4. biggam

    biggam Active Member

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    Now I really wonder about your fertilization program.

    First, let me ask before I forget, what else grows on this acre? Is there a weed-free area at the base of the trees, and how far out from the trunk? Is there grass between rows? Any cover crop?

    Okay, that much nitrogen for 140 two-year-old trees is way too much. As a generalized recomendation, I suggest 200 lb. calcium nitrate and 50 lb. muriate of potash for this many trees. That's all you need to fertilize, applied in early spring; or split in half and the rest applied 6 weeks later (about just after petal fall).

    Is it spring there; when do the tree buds begin growing? The good news, considering the urea application, is that maybe it did not all go into the ground. If urea is not covered with soil or watered-in soon after application, some of it is lost. Calcium nitrate is more expensive, but it is better for the soil (low salt index and does not acidify).

    Was I right about which rootstocks you have? And, out of curiosity, what apple varieties are you growing?
     
  5. andrewj

    andrewj Member

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    I really appreciate the advice! this urea had been left over from a wheat field I established last september so I suspected it had lost some potency. I was not sure.

    The trees - over the last few months, I have clipped all the grass away from the base of the trees, covered with composted manure (thin layer) and then topped with cyprus mulch, a thick layer out to the dripline. I put most of a bag of mulch on each tree. I got the manure and mulch at a discount for all 140 trees.

    The cover crop is ky 31 fescue. Some bermuda has infiltrated the field as well. I keep it mowed fairly well and I do not tolerate weeds.

    rootstock: yes, it is MM111 and bud 118.

    If I were picking varieties now I would do it differently. Having said that, I started with a row of apples that is expected to produce early - they are "pristine" variety from Stark bros. I love this tree. The crotch angles are wonderful, the branches strong, the growth vigorous. Many blooms which I have pinched off to help the roots grow. Next year they will give me apples.

    Grand Gala - wonderful tree. So glad I got these. Strong, great crotch angles, good growth. Royal Gala. mistake. weak trees, won't grow well, almost stunted.
    Gibson Golden. Doing OK. Campbell Red delicious. huge error. These runty stunty wastes of land are horrible. I'm thinking about yanking them out by the limbs and burning them to erase their memory. haha, just kidding. Gold rush. Doing ok.

    I also have some others such as maiden's blush, granny smith, horse, stayman winesap, grimes golden, maybe a few others that escape me.

    Any other advice based on the information here?
    Goldrush, Campbell Red delicious
     
  6. Ralph Walton

    Ralph Walton Active Member 10 Years

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    My focus is fairly narrow towards grapes, so this suggestion should be checked elsewhere, but consider re-grafting to change varieties (either DIY or have somebody come in). It may be possible to gain some advantage from the 2 years of root growth. You could possibly use some of your other (not too old) trees for scions. We love our Grimes Golden by the way.

    Ralph
     
  7. andrewj

    andrewj Member

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    would it be better to try bud grafting so if it didn't take at least I had my original scions, though they be undesirable?
     
  8. biggam

    biggam Active Member

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    http://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/ho/ho39/ho39.pdf

    There's a website about grafting and budding. So far, I have found chip-budding easier than t-budding (though I probably just need to try the latter some more to get the feel). Chip-budding can be done with similar timing as whip-and-tongue grafting; for example, collect scionwood (or budsticks) anytime from now to early spring, store, then graft or bud when the stocks are just coming out of dormancy. You'd need grafting tape (Parafilm) and a sharp knife or razor.

    That's just some info, but if you decide to topwork your trees, budding probably is the way to go.
     
  9. andrewj

    andrewj Member

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    question - if I graft say, gold rush on top of the campbell red delicious (which is itself grafted on m111) then won't I have a gold rush, on interstem cambpell, on m111? won't the interstem throw me off as far as growth, vigor, etc?
     
  10. biggam

    biggam Active Member

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    I wouldn't worry about it; the rootstock has the predominant influence on vigor, early fruiting, etc. I doubt Campbell Delicious would have any adverse influence anyway. It is not exceptionally vigorous, nor tardy to bear fruit. It has resistance to fireblight disease. I do not know whether this is in your area, but anyone growing apples (or pears) should be familiar with symptoms. Keep an eye on your Gala trees since they are moderately susceptible. Here is a table ranking resistance of some cultivars, and you can add 'Nittany', 'Jonafree', and 'Idared' to susceptible varieties (rated > 4.0).
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2008

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