New Japanese Maple, Orange Dream?

Discussion in 'Maples' started by clorgan, Apr 5, 2021.

  1. clorgan

    clorgan Member

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    Hi all!

    I posted last summer about a JM I have, but not posted since. Nice to come back on here, will be having a proper look after I've posted this

    Today I got this JM from a local family run nursery. Unfortunately the only worker there today had no idea what it is specifically (he was more the handyman I think!) and it wasn't labelled.

    I've asked on a bonsai forum, but mixed thoughts. Few options it could be - orange dream, katsura (although the leaves on this don't seem as long) or possibly sango kaku? Consensus seems to be orange dream. It's strange - one side of the trunk is green but the other red?

    I'm hoping to plant at the end of my garden (bottom left where you see the shade). It's a South West garden, but that area is shaded a lot of the day from the garage.

    I have no idea about ground growing trees - all mine are in pots. A few things I'm unsure of:

    - How close to the fence can/should it be planted?
    - Is it a problem if the leaves/branches are touching the fence?

    My thoughts are to have that corner as a welcome shady seated area as the rest of the garden is a bit of a sun trap! Not planned it out properly yet though.

    Any other general adivice really appreciated too
     

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  2. Acerholic

    Acerholic Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Good evening C, nice to see you back on the forum, thats a lovely what I would say is Katsura. Orange Dream isn't out anywhere the UK as far as I'm aware atm either.
    The leaves do look brighter than my Katsura, but your photo is in bright sunshine.
    I have mine close to my border very near a fence, it is a tree that is very upright and can be kept in that form with selective pruning in ( June). My leaves do touch the fence when the wind blows with no problems. If it is in fact Katsura then a position where you get morning bright sunshine in Spring then you will be over the moon as it is wonderful against a blue sky. I will add a photo of mine taken over this weekend for you.
    Katsura 178.JPG
    As you can see the similarities with yours. I do find the bark can be both red and green on this cultivar.
    Hope this is of help.

    D
     
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  3. clorgan

    clorgan Member

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    Thanks so much for your reply! And for your photo - what a beautiful tree! That colour contrast is really beautiful.

    My first thought was katsura too - I have one that is much younger (attached), but the leaves look slightly shorter on the new one which made me think again.

    That's great info about the positioning - I'll keep a close eye on that area over the next few days, at different times of the day. I think it'll be a good place for it though.

    Oh also, any thoughts about the base? The trunk seems to have split on one side?

    Thanks very much again for your help!
     

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  4. Acerholic

    Acerholic Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    As long as it doesn't go all the way round it will be fine. You might find that it will peel away slightly, if it does then gently remove it so as not to trap water etc and cause infection and rot. But do not remove all the way round, sorry to repeat this but it is important.
    Here is my Orange Dream at the beginning of April 2020 for you to compare.
    P1100608.JPG
     
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  5. clorgan

    clorgan Member

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    Great to know, thanks! It's only on one side so I presumed it'd be fine. Just checked and only a very small part peeled off easily so I've done that.

    Oh they're lovely leaves...To me they look different to mine? So my bets are back on Katsura, but I guess it'll become clearer as they open more!

    Looking forward to planning where to plant it now
     
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  6. clorgan

    clorgan Member

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    So I posted this tree on the Bonsai forum I'm on. I've been told that it may be impossible to know which (if any) variety it actually is... I'm fine with that - I'll enjoy its beauty regardless!

    My only concern is that it wouldn't get too large if planted in the ground? I know they're slow growers and maybe being new to ground growing I'm overthinking/worrying over nothing?

    I'm happy to keep potted for the first year to see if the leaves shed more light on a cultivar... Or potted permenantly if it would grow too big for our garden.

    I have attached a photo from a new book of mine - it does look very much like katsura to me and appears to have 5 lobed leaves rather then 7 like orange dream apparently have?

    Sorry for the many questions - just don't want to get this wrong and be dealing with problems of a too large tree in years to come!
     

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  7. Acerholic

    Acerholic Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Orange Dream especially is just not out in the UK atm C. As far as Katsura goes on growth, it is a fairly rapid grower. In a pot it can blow over if in a windy position. But, It will be OK in a pot for this year, so don't worry about doing that, so you can make up your mind in what maple you have and where to place it. It is ideal to keep in a pot for doing this.
    For full beauty of this cultivar though, then in the ground is best IMO. But everyone to their own so to speak.

    Hope the frost didn't get to it last night?

    D
     
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  8. clorgan

    clorgan Member

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    Fingers crossed it's a katsura - they're really beautiful!

    Ideally I'd much prefer it in the ground. I suppose if I later find it's a cultivar that will grow big I can either remove and put into a pot in future, or perhaps prune to keep to a manageable size?

    Frost doesn't appear to have done any damage thankfully! I've attached photos of my other JMs for interest - katsura and atropurpureum I believe?

    The new one and the large barreled one have some aphids. Is it good to spray with neem oil now or best to wait until leaves are out fully?

    Finally - should I remove those dead parts of branches? I'm guessing this is from last years pruning? Perhaps should have listened to Alain and sealed!

    Sorry again for the many questions, and thanks so much for your help!
     

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  9. Acerholic

    Acerholic Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Not a problem C, re Aphids spray as soon as they are evident, but preferably not in full sun.
    Dead wood can be removed at any time of the year, as can diseased. To shape your trees then I prefer at the end of June here in England. I also leave about an inch or so to allow for any die back. This can then be removed the following year.
    Can I make an observation about the depth of the soil around your trees. It is best to be able to see the root flare. This ensures that the trunk does not rot from soil. So if it were me I would be gently brushing it away from the trunk, so at this stage about an 8 inch diameter for your maples.
    Hope this is of help.
     
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  10. Shin-Deshojo

    Shin-Deshojo Active Member

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    I agree with D, and that applies for any cultivars.
    @clorgan
    There is always the options to prune the tree to the maximum desired size each year if you have time to dedicate to this task IMO.
    But yeah the most time in the ground the most the vigor will increase coming from the roots so it may become a painful task after 10 years or more.
    I would personaly not be worried to plant it in the ground if you follow a strict pruning schedule.
    It's up to you.
     
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  11. clorgan

    clorgan Member

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    Great help again, thanks so much! Have uncovered the root flare on them. Photo of the base of the big barrel one (photo)
     

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  12. clorgan

    clorgan Member

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    Great to know - thank you! I'm sure a yearly prune if needed is feasible
     
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  13. Acerholic

    Acerholic Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Brilliant C, but now cover those fine roots that are on show. They need some protection. It's just those thick roots ( Nabari) that should be seen.
     
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  14. clorgan

    clorgan Member

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    Oh yes don't worry I did do that already!
     
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  15. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Rising Contributor

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    @Acerholic good afternoon D, I’ve got two Orange dreams and both are now well on the way out.
     

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  16. Acerholic

    Acerholic Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    I knew someone would say that, lol. And very nice too R. It's funny though how I'm further South than you and mine is nowhere near the stage of yours.
    So apologies to C @clorgan, there are Orange Dreams out there with leaves in the UK now. The photos from R @dicky5ash are very useful for a comparison for your new maple.
     
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  17. Shin-Deshojo

    Shin-Deshojo Active Member

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    Well done, the base looks way better like that.
     
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  18. clorgan

    clorgan Member

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    They look lovely! Mine has 5 lobed leaves though, so I'm not sure it's that
     
  19. clorgan

    clorgan Member

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    No problem at all! I've been having a little look and R's are the only UK ones I've seen out I think!
     
  20. clorgan

    clorgan Member

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    Thanks very much, I agree! Quite a nice base actually
     
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  21. Acerholic

    Acerholic Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Sunny Northampton Lol....
     
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  22. clorgan

    clorgan Member

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    Haha. I'm in Rugby, very close to you!
     
  23. Acerholic

    Acerholic Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    That's R @dicky5ash, I'm in Hampshire.
     
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  24. clorgan

    clorgan Member

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    Ohh I see, read that wrong! Yeah that's strange, I'd have thought you'd have been seeing leaves first being down South
     
  25. Acerholic

    Acerholic Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Thankfully only a few C as these frosts are quite severe on the new leaves. -5° C here tonight.
     
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