neat variegated seedling

Discussion in 'Maples' started by ToddTheLorax, Jun 26, 2008.

  1. ToddTheLorax

    ToddTheLorax Active Member

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    Here are some pictures of a neat maple seedling. It's two years old and small. The leaves are all different sizes and shapes. But they are start out dark red then fade to green with irregular patches.
     

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  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    I would call it weakly red rather than variegated. Many red-leaved forms have leaves that age to partly green. This is considered an inferior characteristic, those with leaves remaining sold red (or purple) being thought better.
     
  3. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    Many young seedlings are "neat" because they are small, cute & fun to grow. I grow
    thousands of seedlings and would suggest that the above 2 year old while interesting
    & worthy of keeping an eye on, it is far too early to characterize it as anything unique.
    It often takes 4-8 years to really see the genetics and the replicability. I love your
    enthusiasm as a "parent" to think your seedling is special and it is because new life is
    fun to be around but give it time, love & perspective. Have fun!
     
  4. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Todd,

    I think its really cool looking! It will be fun to see what it looks like as it gets bigger. I'd be happy to plant that tree in my garden!


    Keep growin!

    K4
     
  5. ToddTheLorax

    ToddTheLorax Active Member

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    RE I would call it weakly red rather than variegated

    Here are pictures this year, It's slow growing, I still think the leaves are unusual. Maybe reticulated is the word.
     

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  6. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Yes, reminiscent of one of the weird recent selections from T. Bucholz - and older cultivars with narrow lobes, noticeable vein patterns.
     
  7. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    Todd,

    That is an interesting looking maple. Certainly many less distinctive looking maples have made it onto the "checklist" ........maybe start thinking of a name. Emery can check and let you know if it's already been taken.

    Congrats

    Gil
     
  8. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    This is my 4th year of serious seedling production and I have been struck this Spring looking at
    the classes of 2006, 2007 and 2008 at how much the seedlings change from year to year just
    like juvenile animals and humans so I can see why old timers have told me that stability of
    macro characteristics and replicability of new genetics can take 8 years or so and then one shud
    grow seedlings from what one thinks might be a new introduction to see if the new genetics are
    stable & replicable. I love growing seedlings becuz I find them just plain cute and fun to watch
    grow. Your 3 year old, Todd, is very nice and looks reticulate like a Kasagiyama but there are so
    many new reticulates hitting the market (too many for my taste personally). I keep meticulous
    mother plant records so when I see a seedling very different from its mother then my interest
    gets quickly piqued. Keep us apprised of your little beauty and keep up the enthusiasm like me.
     
  9. ToddTheLorax

    ToddTheLorax Active Member

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    I really don't think I would introduce a cultivated plant, at least not this one. I just wanted to share because it's interesting. The diversity you get from growing lots of plants from seed and watching them carefully is really cool. If I thought it was worth other people having, I would probably send it to someone who does this for a living and let them do it, I am not set up for something like that, I just like plants. So far I am pretty lousy at grafting. I've had some successful attempts but I wouldn't dare cutting scions from this one yet, I'm just too likely to waste them. I'll try keeping it alive and update everyone in another year or two.

    I posted some pictures of another seemingly dwarf maple that started to take off this year. Maybe in a year this one will put on some size and I can see if it is worth propagating. If, after another year or two, the progeny look true to form, then I'll worry about naming it.
     
  10. ToddTheLorax

    ToddTheLorax Active Member

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    Here it is a year later. It is definitely a dwarf, reticulated, matsumurae type. The other red seedlings from this year are 2 or 3 feet tall. The leaves are double serrated and interestingly tend to be widest at the center, relatively narrow at tips and base. I may try to graft it this year to see if I can get more vigor out of the rootstock and preserve it in case this one doesn't make it. But I may need someone do it for me. I've had some limited success grafting but there is very little plant material to work with and my percentage isn't good. Ive got a few other choice seedlings I'll post pictures of soon.
    -todd
     

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  11. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Todd,

    That is looking really nice. I would be happy to try and graft it for you this coming winter (too late for this year), but you need to prep the plant this season. First off, I would make sure it is not pot-bound. If so, I would re-pot with fresh potting mix in the next pot size up. Next I would prune back the branches by one set of leaves. Essentially just nip off the end of each branch. Maples respond to pruning by sending up vigorous new shoots. Lastly I would give it a good dose of fertilizer - not Miracle Grow, but something organic like HollyTone. Apply according to directions on the package. You want the plant to put on thick new growth this spring, as these branches will make the best scions for grafting later on in the winter.

    Hope this helps!
     
  12. alex66

    alex66 Rising Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    which is (if is not secret) the cultivar of the seeds?
     
  13. ToddTheLorax

    ToddTheLorax Active Member

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    I do not think the seed was from a cultivated form. It came to me as red japanese maple seed. will see about grafting it later this year. Thanks.
     
  14. ToddTheLorax

    ToddTheLorax Active Member

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    Oh, this one should not be underpotted, even after this year. The year I started it, I recognized it was different, removed it from it's plug, and gave it a larger 5 inch pot. I repotted it from that into the large white square pot this past fall. It's much larger than a 'trade gallon' can. And when I potted it up, I noticed it has a small root system. That's one reason I want to graft it. It should be a sturdier more vigorous plant on a vigorous rootstock.

    It's in a very good soiless mix (1/4 cactus mix, 1/4 turface, 1/4 coconut husks, 1/4 perlite). Some osmocote is in the mix, and I periodically water with diluted a Dyna-Gro fertilizer.
     
  15. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Very good. Let's see what happens with it and see if we can get some descent scion wood.

    By the way, do you know anything of the parentage? Where did you get the seed? Just curious.
     
  16. ToddTheLorax

    ToddTheLorax Active Member

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    RE: By the way, do you know anything of the parentage? Where did you get the seed? Just curious

    not really. My friends and family know I do this kind of thing, including those in Pennsylvania and midwest were these are much more common. So I get little packages in the mail from people saying 'my neighbor has a nice red japanese maple. here are some seeds.' or "i mentioned your hobby to my friend and he gave me these'. This batch was from a source like that. All but two were typical, vigorous, red seedlings. The other interesting one is in an another thread a little further down. It's a bright red deeply divided dwarf, although not quite this dwarf. I have no reason to suspect the parent plant was anything special. It was from someone's landscape plant, an upright red japanese maple. This package actually came with a leaf. It looked like standard atropurpureum. If it was a cultivated form maybe bloodgood or margaret bee. largish red leaf greenish underneath.

    I'm not in 'maple country' but I do like these plants a lot and have seen many varieties in person, at nurseries, books, catalogs etc. This one certainly is distinctive in terms of foliage. whether or not it is a good plant, only time will tell.
     
  17. Imperfect Ending

    Imperfect Ending Active Member

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    It looks really evil, I love it
     
  18. zonebreaker

    zonebreaker Active Member

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    Let me be the first to give you some name suggestions, Evil dwarf , Blushing devil , Mad hobbit, or the more humoristic "Angry wife" .
    Still, i think it is a beutiful cultivar with attitude!
     
  19. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Oh come now! Let's not get evil on a beautiful tree!!! I think it reminds me of fire, with those amazing serrations on the lobes - they look just like flames. How about Acer palmatum 'Flaming Dragon'?? Or name it after a famous dragon, like the one in Eragon named 'Saphira'? Or 'Smaug' from the Hobbit? Or since its a dwarf, how 'bout 'Mushu', the little dragon in Mulan? Or 'Kiyo', a vengeful woman in Japanese mythology who turned herself into a dragon to take revenge? We could get carried away here, couldn't we? :-)
     
  20. ToddTheLorax

    ToddTheLorax Active Member

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    Actually, I kinda like the nefarious names. I was thinking of something like 'angry elf' or 'bad santa'. But I had thought of a literary reference too and the reference to the dragon from the The Hobbit, 'Smaug' is a good idea.Why not let the maple forum name it? We can come up with a list or something and do a poll. Maybe the 5th edition of japanese maples will include it and say, 'discovered by a maple amateur in Texas and named by the UBC botanical garden internet forum'. Wouldn't that be cool? The community of plant enthusiasts and collectors are the ones that own things like this. They are the ones that keep propagates alive in their gardens, find new ones, and pass them on. If in time we can get enough plants then we can send one to the UBC garden and to some of the generous contributors to the forum.
     
  21. mattlwfowler

    mattlwfowler Active Member Maple Society

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    That is a sharp little fella there. It doesn't look quite as reticulated as some of the others, but the color and leaf shape are different from what I have seen.
     
  22. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Todd,

    I like that idea! Not sure how you do a survey here, but perhaps we should start with name nominations? We could put a limit on the number of nominations - say two per person - so that everyone has a chance for input. Only names that are not on the World Checklist of Maple Cultivar Names will be considered. Then we can compile a master list and have the voting.

    I like the literary bent, so I nominate:

    Smaug
    Ryujin (also spelled Rinjin)

    ...both after fire-breathing dragons. Smaug from The Hobbit, and Ryujin from Japanese mythology, which means "Dragon King"
     
  23. 01876

    01876 Active Member

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    Mad Puff?
     
  24. zonebreaker

    zonebreaker Active Member

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    I kind of like Mushu, sounds more japanese than angry wife.....
     
  25. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I'm not in love with my first thoughts, so I'll replace them if I think of something better:
    Crimson chaos
    Merry madcap

    Mushu makes me think of food. Smaug makes me think of grey-brown smog not red.

    I really like Ryujin. It sounded familiar so I googled it. There is a Pinus parviflora Ryu jin. Doesn't mean you can't use it for amaple.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010

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