Mystery plant.

Discussion in 'Plants: Identification' started by togata57, Jun 14, 2023.

  1. togata57

    togata57 Generous Contributor 10 Years

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    What is this?
    Not a coreopsis, I think.
    Thought all would be revealed when it bloomed, but I can wait no longer.
    Someone ID this interloper!

    coreopsisnt 1.jpg coreopsisnt 2.jpg
     
  2. togata57

    togata57 Generous Contributor 10 Years

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    Anyone...????
     
  3. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Plant@Net is giving it a 78.69 percent chance of being Ratibida pinnata, "Pinnate prairie coneflower, Drooping prairie-coneflower, Gray-head prairie-coneflower, Pinnate prairie-coneflower, Pinnate-leaf prairie-coneflower, Grayhead Or Pinnate Prairie Coneflower, Grey-Headed Coneflower, Grey-Headed Prairie Coneflower". I have never heard of that plant, and leave it to you to decide what you think about this ID. It's native to the central and eastern US (and Ontario). Ratibida pinnata - Wikipedia says the disc heads of that plant "have a scent reminiscent of anise when crushed".
    Ratibida pinnata (Vent.) Barnhart, Pinnate prairie coneflower (World flora) - Pl@ntNet identify (plantnet.org)
     
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  4. togata57

    togata57 Generous Contributor 10 Years

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    Thanks, Wendy.

    Hmm. 78.69 percent, eh? Looking at pix of this plant I think....yeah, maybe...?
    Will report result of disc-head crushing.

    Plants are great, aren't they? You never know who might stop by for the season!
     
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  5. togata57

    togata57 Generous Contributor 10 Years

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  6. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Sure, but on Asteraceae plants like this, each "petal" is a ray flower. As your link says, the "sepals" underneath are bracts, and the collection of bracts form an involucre. This is actually the first time I've at least half understood what an involucre is.

    All the Ratibida pinnata photos that come up on a search show bright yellow flowers, so either these ray flowers are going to darken up, or we're looking for another name. Post the flowers when they seem to seem at full bloom.
     
  7. togata57

    togata57 Generous Contributor 10 Years

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  8. togata57

    togata57 Generous Contributor 10 Years

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  9. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    This page says Ratibida pinnata has simple leaves, not separated into leaflets, which doesn't match the name or what I'm seeing there, but other than that, has some good close-up photos for you to compare leaf shape and fuzzy stems.
    Ratibida pinnata (gray-headed Mexican-hat): Go Botany (nativeplanttrust.org).

    Ratibida pinnata (Gray-headed Coneflower, Grey-headed Coneflower, Pinnate Prairie Coneflower, Prairie Coneflower, Yellow Coneflower) | North Carolina Extension Gardener Plant Toolbox (ncsu.edu) also says the leaf type is simple.
    There was the name Rudbeckia pinnata mentioned in a link, which brings up Ratibida pinnata on Wikipedia.
    It's only native in to the eastern US and Canada, but there is a cultiver called 'Sunglow'.

    At least Ratibida pinnata - Plant Finder (missouribotanicalgarden.org) says the leaves are pinnately divided, and reminds me "When bruised, the disk smells of anise". You can check that now!
     
  10. togata57

    togata57 Generous Contributor 10 Years

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    Disk-bruising does not do much, smell-wise. Perhaps I am too gentle.
    However, the flowers do produce a lovely pleasant aroma!

    Dunno about 'anise' scent...if so, certainly not emphatic like my giant hyssops'.

    As colors are perceived differently among individuals, so too I think are fragrances. This scent does not say 'anise' to me, but I can believe it might do for someone else.

    So....maybe?
     
  11. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Ratibida pinnata in Flora of North America @ efloras.org says it's a native plant in Ohio and blooms from May until October.
    I have to bow out now, have already said more than I know. You'll probably be fine calling it a coneflower.

    Usually for Asteraceae, it's helpful for IDs to see the underside of the flowers, to see the structure of the involucre, but I'm not seeing any photos of the underside of flowers named Ratibida, so I don't that that's going to help here unless someone joins the conversation who knows these flowers or who has better resources.
     
  12. togata57

    togata57 Generous Contributor 10 Years

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    Yes, 'coneflower' is precise enough for me...although the name 'Ratibida' has kinda caught on. :-)

    As soon as I read the name I thought of this classic lyric:
    Oh Lydia, oh, Lydia, say have you met Lydia
    Oh, Lydia, the tattooed lady

    Ratibida, Ratibida....
    (Apologies to Harold Arlen, Yip Harburg, and Groucho Marx.)

    Musical allusion aside---
    Bees and butterflies like it, and so do I! A pleasant visitor, one I will encourage to return.

    Thank you, Wendy, for your interest and information.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2023
  13. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    I forgot about that song. I have seen the version with the three Marx brothers in At the Circus, but I prefer this version with just Groucho doing it on the Dick Cavett Show when he was almost 80, in 1969:
    Groucho sings LYDIA THE TATTOOED LADY - YouTube
     
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  14. GreenLarry

    GreenLarry Active Member 10 Years

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    Looks a bit like a Rudbeckia
     
  15. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Yes, I see that the reason a query on Rudbeckia pinnata brings up Ratibida (posting #9) is that it used to be known as Rudbeckia pinnata according to Ratibida pinnata (Gray-headed Coneflower, Grey-headed Coneflower, Pinnate Prairie Coneflower, Prairie Coneflower, Yellow Coneflower) | North Carolina Extension Gardener Plant Toolbox (ncsu.edu).
    Rudbeckia - Wikipedia says: "Rudbeckia is one of at least four genera within the flowering plant family Asteraceae whose members are commonly known as coneflowers; the others are Echinacea, Dracopis, and Ratibida."
    Dracopsis looks quite different, and the others seem to have more ray flowers, which I'm saying based on not much experience.
     

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