Identification: Mushiness

Discussion in 'Fungi, Lichens and Slime Molds' started by soccerdad, Sep 21, 2021.

  1. soccerdad

    soccerdad Active Member 10 Years

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    I have a shared area where I grow primulas. At this time of year it gets absolutely full of mushrooms, perhaps 6" across (except for the fact that they are so close together). I attach a photo. I treat them as poisonous and do not plan on eating them but does anyone know if there is any way of getting rid of them?
     

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  2. Sulev

    Sulev Well-Known Member

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    Looks like Echinoderma aspera aka Lepiota aspera.
    You may try repeated digging/tilling. Shouldn't be so difficult to get rid of these mushrooms.
    Echinoderma asperum - Wikipedia
     
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  3. vitog

    vitog Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    With 6" caps I'd guess that these are Shaggy Parasols, either Chlorophyllum rhacodes or one of the other two similar species we have here. A slice through the base of the stem should turn pink to red, and the spore print should be white. These are among my favorite mushrooms for eating; I'll be glad to take them off your hands. It's good to know that their season has arrived.
     
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  4. Sulev

    Sulev Well-Known Member

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  5. vitog

    vitog Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Sulev, you are probably right about these being E. aspera; but then they also are not likely to be 6" across the caps, since the maximum diameter mentioned in eFlora BC is 10 cm.
     
  6. Sulev

    Sulev Well-Known Member

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    I have seen larger than 10 cm caps on E. aspera even in my garden. Those descriptions (eFlora) provide typical sizes, not record sizes.
    Besides, AFAIK, Soccerdad did not measure these caps. 6 inches was his estimation. From the photo they don't look that big, compared to other objects (Primula leaves) there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
  7. soccerdad

    soccerdad Active Member 10 Years

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    Here are a few photos of one. It is 4.5" diameter. They are mostly closely compacted and far from even roughly circular but there may well be bigger ones.

    Of course I just want to eliminate them which is probably impossible without destroying my primulas - ain't gonna happen! But would be curious about what they are.

    Unless someone wants to play the role of unpaid food taster first, they won't pass my lips.
     

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  8. vitog

    vitog Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    I don't see any staining on the broken stem; so, I think that E. aspera is the correct ID. EFlora BC states that it is edible with caution, but I wouldn't eat anything that resembles the small Lepiotas in our area because some are poisonous.
     
  9. Margot

    Margot Generous Contributor 10 Years

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    For what it's worth, @soccerdad 's photos look far more like Chlorophyllum rhacodes in @Sulev's photos. To my eye, they aren't even close!

    I sent the photos to one of the most highly esteemed BC Naturalists; he replied -

    "They look to me like either Chlorophyllum rhacodes or C. brunneum. But I cannot tell for sure from photos only." Tellingly, he's never heard of Echinoderma aspera.
     
  10. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    I am surprised at the Chlorophyllum ID. I know almost nothing about identifying mushrooms, but I thought the little skirt on the stem just under the cap, on Soccer Dad's photo, and on Sulev's two photos of Echinoderma aspera (seems to be E. asperum) in posting #4 would be significant. If the BC Naturalist has not heard of Echinoderma aspera, it would not seem to count as confirming that it can't be the ID of the mushrooms in question, unless it doesn't occur here. But it does, particularly recorded in Vancouver - see the E-Flora BC page for its synonym, Lepiota aspera: E-Flora BC Atlas Page (ubc.ca). Echinoderma asperum is listed on the synonym page.
     
  11. Sulev

    Sulev Well-Known Member

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    It would be easy to distinguish between Chlorophyllum rhacodes and Echinoderma aspera if both of them are side by side. C. rhacodes has large soft fluffy scales on top of the cap. And its cap is pretty soft too, it breaks easily. Any in cuts will soon get reddish discoloration. Its stem is relatively long. They have a mild pleasant smell.
    E. aspera has smaller and much harder pyramidal scales, that can even resemble small spikes (especially on younger fruiting bodies). Its cap is pretty stiff. It takes minutes for reddish discoloration to appear on cuts (significantly slower than in case of C. rhacodes). Its gills are crowded and often forked (see magnification of a Soccerdad's latest photo). Its stem is relatively short (approximately half of the length of C. rhacodes). They have a strong and even unpleasant smell. According to eFlora its cap is up to 11 cm in diameter. 4.5'' is 11.43 cm. That's not an eliminating difference.

    Soccerdad's mushroom gills (note forking and density)
    Gills.jpg
    vs Chlorophyllum rhacodes (note less crowded gills, no forking - near the edge there are additional gills inbetween instead, also note that reddish hue of the center, where stem was previously attached)

    https://www.wildfooduk.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Shaggy-Parasol-gills.jpg
     
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  12. Sulev

    Sulev Well-Known Member

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  13. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    I guess not. Thanks for the detailed descriptions, Sulev. I see the little skirt on your Chlorophyllum photo too.
     
  14. Sulev

    Sulev Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they both have a skirt at certain age, the skirt is weakly attached (especially for Chlorophyllum rhacodes) and can easily be missing, because has already fallen off. That's why I did not mention a skirt. Actually there are certain indicative properties at skirts also - Echinoderma aspera may often have brown scales at the edge of the skirt. These come when skirt is separating from the cap. See the photo below.

    https://ultimate-mushroom.com/uploads/posts/2021-03/1616598912_echinoderma-asperum-1.jpg
     
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  15. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    It seems to me that you are including images that are linked from elsewhere using the IMG tag (and not your own images). These should be linked directly with HTTP -- there is a huge risk (and more work) for me with using the IMG tag, in that people whose images are being used can substitute in other images using the same file name... that might not be pleasant to look at.
     
  16. Sulev

    Sulev Well-Known Member

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    If the IMG tag is not welcome here, then it is wise to remove IMG button from the edit toolbar.
     
  17. soccerdad

    soccerdad Active Member 10 Years

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    1. I just attach photos that I took with my own cell. Daniel, am I doing everything correctly?

    2. I attach one more photo if it helps. The mushrooms occupy about 10" x 14" on my picnic table but were squished together, and only occupied half of that area, in the garden
     

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  18. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    We used to have a plugin that did that. But I think it stopped working, and now we're waiting for an opportunity to do a whole suite of updates... but this is covered anyway under the Forum Charter re: posting of copyright materials and image use (and representing that images posted are your own images or you have permission to use).

    (and yes, @soccerdad , all is fine with those images)
     
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  19. Frog

    Frog Rising Contributor Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Echinoderma does occur in our region, though not often found, or possibly not often reported. We had a few confirmed specimens in Victoria area in 2019 or 2020. Being a BC naturalist does not necessarily mean the person knows much about mycology, but even if they do focus on fungi, Echinoderma is again not commonly encountered, so might not be on that person's radar.
    I agree the OP's photo looks more like Echinoderma than Chlorophyllum.
     
  20. soccerdad

    soccerdad Active Member 10 Years

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    Merely for the purpose of increasing the world's store of knowledge, is there any knowledgeable person who would like some of mine?
     
  21. Frog

    Frog Rising Contributor Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Hi @soccerdad - Do you mean you are offering to share dried specimens? If so, I suggest drying cracker-crisp, recording all observations of fresh condition (colours, size, smell etc), location etc and sending attn Mycology Curator, Beaty Biodiversity Museum, UBC
     

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