Mikawa yatsubusa: Your growth rate?

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Arktrees, Mar 14, 2010.

  1. Arktrees

    Arktrees Member

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    Hello Everyone,
    We have a Mikawa yatsubusa that was planted two years ago, that is doing VERY well. No complaints. When we got it, it was a 3 yr old graft container grown plant that was pretty small that I planted in the ground in the Spring of 2008. Here's the question. How much do yours grow per season? Our dwarf Mikawa yatsubusa is growing anything but slowly. Basically once is starts in late March/Early April it does not stop until mid-September. It gets about 1/2 day sun (afternoon), and lack of rain has not been a problem the last couple summers, and over all have been very mild (compared to what it can be some years) with early falls. I can only conclude it's been happy with the weather conditions. It looks healthy, it's just strange as everywhere I see it's very slow growing, and that has not been our experience at all. Thanks for your imput.

    Arktrees
     
  2. silver_creek

    silver_creek Active Member

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    Mine in the ground grows 4"-6" in a good (moist) summer, and less in a dry summer. Where I work, we grow them in containers with ample irrigation, and they can get pretty happy, growing 8" or more.
     
  3. Silver surfer

    Silver surfer Contributor 10 Years

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    This has got to be our very slowest Acer. Still a real dwarf, it was planted in June 1997, today almost 13 years later, it is still only approx 18" or 50 cm tall. This pic was taken 20th Nov 2008.
     

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  4. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Mine is like Silver Surfer's: very slow growth with very short internodes. The new growth in a year must be of the order of 5 cm (or 2") at most. I wonder if, like in several other cases, we are dealing with cultivars arising from different sources or is it just a difference in growing situations.

    Gomero
     
  5. NJACER

    NJACER Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I have a few A.p. 'Mikawa yatsubusa' in my gardens and find that my original plant purchased from Del Lucks in 1995 is very slow growing. My original plant is only about 12 inches tall in 15 years. See photo from 2006. I also have added a few other examples of this cultivar grown in OR and they seem to grow about two to four inches a year. The second photo is a tree I purchased in 2007 that had a graft date of 2002. The example in the pot is almost three feet tall at this time.

    Other than the growth rate, the trees seem to be the same.

    Ed
     

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  6. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Wondering how much affect the root stalk used might have or if some are propagated by cuttings.
     
  7. NJACER

    NJACER Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    chimera,

    My plants are all grafted. My oldest one was grafted and sent to me as a first year graft from Del. The larger plant in the pot was purchased from a local nursery that got it from Iseli nursery. I also have a plant from Buchholz nursery. The main differance is that the other plants were grown on a few years in Oregon.

    Ed
     
  8. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I see Ed, maybe having been fertilized in an Oregon nursery for some years had an effect.
     
  9. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    With fruit trees (eg. apples) different rootstocks are used to induce different size and growth rate of scion plants. Maybe different rootstocks have a similar effect on Japanese maples?
     
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  10. Arktrees

    Arktrees Member

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    Our tree was grown in Ft. Worth Texas, which is 2 USDA zones higher, with much hotter drier summers on average. The grower indicated that they had one exceptional where he had some grow 8" (20 cm), but that was far more than he normally gets. Ours has beaten even that. So, I'm sure some of you are wondering just how much it has grown. The answer to that is 2' (two feet, 61 cm) in two years. We planted it near a window expecting it to stay small, but now I'm considering moving it next winter if it pulls the 12"+ growth trick again this year. I also think it's partly fertilizer from nearby iris. Still I would never have thought it would grow that much even with fertilizer, and I made sure the significant other fertilized allot lest last summer, but it actually grew a bit more. So to this point the only result seems to be a Mikawa Yatsubusha that doesn't know it's a dwarf, and it's gotten to it's current size far faster than expected. Thanks for you feedback everyone.

    Arktrees
     
  11. paxi

    paxi Active Member

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    Well I have only had mine for I think three years, grafted and container grown. It also grows about 3 inches per year. I have another in ground for just a year which did about the same for that year

    I have often wondered how old this tree must be:

    http://www.buchholznursery.com/plant_page.html?id=bf359

    Arktrees, >30 cm 1 year?!? Wow - lets see a pic. I gently must ask - are you sure that its a mikawa yatsubusa and not a close relative? what kind of fertilizer do you use on that iris?
     
  12. Arktrees

    Arktrees Member

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    You didn't need to worry about offending me with the request. I know I would want to see it before I believe it. I will have to check on the fertilizer, as I don't know what she used. But I do know the iris are supposed to be sensitive to too much fertilizer, but I will ask her more about it. As for cultivar, it is true as far as I know. It was sold to us as a 3 year graft, and it looked correct. I will work on the pictures, I will also try to get one in the next couple days with some scale. Again, I would be very skeptical as well, and I know that it's much faster than expected, hence why I asked the question.
     

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  13. Silver surfer

    Silver surfer Contributor 10 Years

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    Arktrees, I suspect that it is not the true Acer palmatum "Mikawa yatsubusa".
    According to Japanese Maples by J.D. Vertrees, it should have.....
    Quote " 7 lobes separated two thirds the distance to the centre.The margins of the lobes are finely incised and point forwards. The base of the leaf is truncate or sub-cordate"
     

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  14. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I tend to agree with you Maf. The growing conditions in my garden are the same for all the maples and I notice that some dwarfs (like Mikawa yatsubusa) do actually behave as dwarfs while other dwarfs grow too much, like a 15 years old true Koto hime which is more than 2.5 m tall. I cannot see other explanation.

    Gomero
     
  15. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Not sure Silver, "Maples of the World" by van Gelderen reads 5 lobes. Seems to be some variation shown in the photo thread www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2838 Possible typo or ....? Maybe 5-7 lobed would be appropriate.
     
  16. Silver surfer

    Silver surfer Contributor 10 Years

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    Hmm! Wonder if that would explain it. 7 lobes slow growing. 5 lobes quicker.
    Strange for 2 good reference books to be so different. I hadn't checked Maples of the World. Wonder what the latest Vertee says?
     
  17. NJACER

    NJACER Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I have always wondered why maples from OR grow so quickly when compared to plants grown on the east coast. The Maple Society meeting in Portland this last fall provided my first visit to the nurseries in OR and in talking to some of the growers I found that they push the plants to obtain a larger sellable plant in a short time. The practice of achieving a larger product in a shorter period of time is common across the nursery trade. I understand that some nurseries us a chip budding or bud grafting (not sure what is the correct term) to push the cultivars as they start out. They then control the growing conditions with fertilizer and their soil mixes. I have noticed that on some of the cultivars that I have received the plant did not have the cultivar characteristics until the second or third year. I would suggest that you give it a year or two to observe and see if the faster growth continues.

    Ed
     
  18. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Maybe Silver , or 5 lobes on older growth branches and 7 on younger branches ? Still waiting for the new edition.
     
  19. Arktrees

    Arktrees Member

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    I'm not expert on Japanese Maple cultivars, and certainly not on the fine characteristics. But I do know that Sugar Maples that are growing fast will often "drop" lobes while growing so fast. I dugg up a few more pictures from April 2008 soon after planting. Looks as though many of the leaves have 6 lobes at that time. So lobes may be variable.
     

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  20. paxi

    paxi Active Member

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    Well your tree looks very much like mine (except for the fast growth part). Very interesting indeed. Thanks for the pics. Beautiful plant by the way. As you can see (well, kind of the pic didn't come out very well), I like this tree so much I made it my avatar. This tree is probably responsible for my maple addiction. Very hardy and instant bonsai.
     
  21. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    My Mikawa only grows a few inches a year. The internodes are so close it makes finding any scion wood a difficult task.

    As far as the cultural part of things, I have to agree with Ed about the Oregon nurseries "pushing" their JMs. I've gotten plants literally swimming in Osmocote beads. It could take years for the effects of that to die down.

    In contrast, I have never gotten a "pushed" plant from the better East Coast growers - like Francie at Eastwoods or Diana at Topiary Gardens. They are much more conservative in their treatment of the plants. I know Diana only fertilizes every 2nd or 3rd year. No Osmocote...
     
  22. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    The new edition of Vertrees says "five to seven moderately deeply divided lobes", which fits in with the plants shown in this thread.

    From what I can see from Arktrees' pictures the rootstock looks as if it is more vigorous than the scion, or at least it looks as if it has a larger diameter.
     
  23. Arktrees

    Arktrees Member

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    Sorry I'm a bit late getting back here this evening, I had to work late. Anyway a bit of additional information. The fertilizer used nearby was slow release "Garden Club Select" from Lowe's (for those of you in the states). On the container it says "Premium Slow Release Plant Food", and "Feeds up tp 9 Months". Analysis is 16-2-14 with a number of percentages of other nutrients and micro-nutrients (i.e. sulfur, iron, manganese etc., basically all 13 required nutrients). Applied during the spring, but she says not heavily. Flow of water is away from the Mikawa which would tend to flush nitrogen away. The Mikawa is also next to our lawn that I maintain. However I do not fertilize near this bed due to the sensitivity of the iris, and potential for overshooting while spreading. That way if something happens to the iris, it's not my fault! ;-)

    I took a few more pictures this evening for you to peruse.

    First is myself holding a yard stick next to the longest shoot from last year. The base of the yard stick is approximately at the point of growth initiation last spring (note the buds all the way down to that point). Also note some of the internodes are approximately 1/2" (~1 CM) spacing at maxium. This is not as pronounced on other shoots.

    Second is the yard stick placed at the node where growth began two springs ago, shortly after planting the tree. This shows the total increase in height since planting. As you can see there has been allot of growth.

    Third picture shows the graph union, as the difference in size was noted by another poster.

    I will likely move the tree from this location late next fall, as it's clearly out growing it's current location much more quickly than expected. The longer internodes would indicated nitrogen as a influence, but this is balanced by the fact that the leaves have not been the abnormally green for a Mikawa Yatsubusa, nor were the leaves abnormally large. All of which are systematic of high nitrogen. Also keep in mind the fact that the tree has grown continuously for approximately 5.5 months each of the last two years.
    I want to emphasize, the tree appears to be completely healthy, and I am certainly not unhappy with it. It looks as expected, but is simply behaving remarkably.

    Arktrees
     

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  24. dawgie

    dawgie Active Member 10 Years

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    Mikawa yatsubusa is probably the slowest growing of 20 or so Japanese maple varieties I own. I've had mine for 3-4 years in a container, and it's probably grown only 3-4" during that time. Most of my other maples have needed repotting during that time to accomodate additional growth, but Mikawa yatsubusa has been in the same pot for about 3 years.

    I actually like the fact that mine grows so slowly because I would like to keep it containerized as long as possible. I've got other "dwarf" varieties that keep outgrowing their containers, such as Kamagata, Wilson's Pink and Beni ubi gohan.
     
  25. amazingmaples

    amazingmaples Well-Known Member

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    I have owned this Mikawa yatsubusa for 4 years. It was a little smaller than this when I bought it but every every year I have to prune it to keep it fitting in this location. Some of the shoots on it grow pretty fast maybe 9" to 12" per season and other parts do not grow near is fast. I have at least 15 small ones planted in the ground and most grow about 6" to 8" per year, they are located in full sun and in a yard which is always moist.
     

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