Maple cultivar by another name OR (Synonym).#27 #458 #665

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Acerholic, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Thankyou Ron, good information.
     
  2. opusoculi

    opusoculi Well-Known Member

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    No Alain, you have to open immediately « L’oreille cassée » from Hergé ...

    An other investigation on the multitude of undetectable copies to find the original, this talisman research, i am sure, will rest you.

    I appreciate this thread, it should be known.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
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  3. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Thankyou for your support Pierre.
     
  4. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Here is another that has just come to my attention. 'Fire Glow' and Effigy.
    It will be added to #27.
     
  5. Jaybee63

    Jaybee63 Rising Contributor Maple Society

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    I have both and would say they are definitely distinguished. Red Pygmy is more red and for longer. Atrolineare nee growth is much more upright, distinguishable so, in my expierience.
     
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  6. Jaybee63

    Jaybee63 Rising Contributor Maple Society

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    Definitely different. I have 2 Toyama Nishiki, both different in the amount of variation. One is beautiful and the abrogation very subtle. The other is more defined. Variegation pretty uniform year on year.
    One plant was from RHS Wisley and a specimen size, the other sources from Barthelemys.
    I did wonder if the large plant was labelled wrong as it it’s variegation is much more patchy than its counterpart.

    I have 4 Goshiki Shidare, all very uniform, all from Barthelemys. One is an old plant, the others young. Variegation varies year to year, some years breathtaking. It’s not garish, very subtle and different branches carry different degrees of variation so it’s good to train up and let cascade with tiered layered branches.

    So my Toyamas although varying from each other, are noticeable different from Goshiki Shidare.
     
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  7. Jaybee63

    Jaybee63 Rising Contributor Maple Society

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    I’ve always known these to be the same tree.
    I have 2, the one in a pot is old and beautiful. It’s very different to the one that is planted, has really small leaves and much more variegation.
    For me this is due to not reporting, not fertilising on purpose, it looks much better, add any fertiliser and you loose it’s best character.
    I’d recommend keeping this in a lot in poor well drained soil and no fertiliser once you have the framework you want.
    Very short internodes, small leaves, tight and compact.
     
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  8. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Contributor

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    Both my Toyama and Goshiki are from Barthelemys. They are sooooo small when they arrive aren’t they. Grafting tape/rubber still as fresh as the day it was wrapped.
     
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  9. Jaybee63

    Jaybee63 Rising Contributor Maple Society

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    They have larger plants, some will be 3 to 4 mtr high. It’s worth a visit.
    But I like the fact that many specimens I now have were grown from 1 year grafts.
    I tend to buy a few specimens per year and plenty of one year grafts which are grown on around the patio in terracotta pots on a drip irrigation system.
    There grafts are around £11 if I remember correct and discounted if you buy a few, so it’s always worth a punt. I’ve got 4mtr tress I’ve grown on, some can do this in 5 to 6 years dependant on cultivar.
     
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  10. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Contributor

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    Sounds like your garden is quite a special place to hang out :-)
     
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  11. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    @Jaybee63 this is all great stuff J. I did think that you would give some excellent input to this thread. It will definatly help others and that is what this is all about. 'HELPING' each other.
     
  12. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    But great fun watching them grow and shaping them to what WE want in our own gardens, as we talked about yesterday.
     
  13. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    This one is interesting 'Ryu sei' but known as Ryusen everywhere in Europe. But as Yano first recorded it in a hard copy book in 2003 before Ryusen was written about, then 'Ryu sei' comes first.

    I have found Millennium green as the Synonym. Unless anyone else knows differently.


    Thanks D @LoverOfMaples.
     
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  14. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    The known as name is new to me, 'Baton Rouge' known and sold as Red Stick.
    Just submitted on another thread by @campbtl
     
  15. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    The problem of "westernizing" Japanese names, is I suppose inevitable, but leads to lots of confusion. I suppose Ryusen / Ryu sei is one of these.

    O kagami? Okagami? Oh-kagame? or Bi hoo? Bi hou, etc. The poor consumer! :)
     
  16. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Definatly agree E, 'the poor consumer'. But I hope this thread will help UBC maple forum members. Looking at the PM's I'm getting, a lot think it will.
     
  17. Jaybee63

    Jaybee63 Rising Contributor Maple Society

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    Just to show how different conditions impact on colours and make identification difficult.
    All photos taken today, all Villa Taranto. First pic is a plant in shade without direct sun, second 2 images show same cultivar in a position which receives “some” direct sun for a few hours a day. 4A71517B-DF7E-463F-ACD0-E7A4D3CC2C24.jpeg 81E4ED3C-55A0-49A1-A3EC-BFDFA568AB6B.jpeg EEB92A98-190E-4BD9-84BC-B3C1A7320188.jpeg
     
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  18. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Agreed J and can you imagine the differences with continents. A very good point and illustrated well. Thankyou.
     
  19. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    I have just received a PM with information on another cultivar. This is
    'Shigarami' and known as Saku. @campbtl might find this interesting. It can be found in Vertrees Fourth edition page 236.
     
  20. Jaybee63

    Jaybee63 Rising Contributor Maple Society

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    6A765100-C221-412F-B81D-6C0C0CE2D5C7.jpeg BF2592D7-7220-48A1-81A8-189DCA1D5EAF.jpeg 16C29229-B5D3-4DB4-A941-65B36049419F.jpeg 36C9EA75-A361-4A6E-918E-D3CE10815CD0.jpeg First 2 pics, Ref Pygmy, second 2 Atrolineare, all pics taken today, both plants same sun exposure.
     
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  21. Jaybee63

    Jaybee63 Rising Contributor Maple Society

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    First 2, 2 different Toyama Nishiki, they look very different.
    Nest 2 images, Goshiki Shidare A2CE281B-2E21-4F68-B2CB-CBE0EE5DC897.jpeg F0A91A13-1214-4ECF-87C0-C88D57B243A7.jpeg AA7015A3-DB93-41A0-B49F-6165C4E158A7.jpeg A1103B6C-17CF-48B8-BB79-6F6EBF8EFBDF.jpeg
     
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  22. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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  23. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    This is what some unscrupulous sellers online will make use of when selling a BRAND NEW CULTIVAR. Your photos will indeed help as I hope this thread will for old and new members alike when considering a purchase. I quote Emery today when he said 'Poor consumers'.
     
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  24. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    I've just been chatting to a friend and he was talking about Shidiva gold and how it's almost identical to his Aoyagi. So I will put it on the list as similar to at this time. I know that Shidiva gold is a witches broom from Aoyagi, so it does fit to have it here.
     
  25. Jaybee63

    Jaybee63 Rising Contributor Maple Society

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    Hmm, I can’t find my Aoyagi, reckon it’s one that I’ve lost.
    Here’s my Shidava Gold 2B7C7F53-95F5-4781-B7A3-E80A429B7E2D.jpeg
     

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