Magnolia sieboldii / Cercis canadensis

Discussion in 'Woody Plants' started by Carol Bulmer, Aug 4, 2006.

  1. Carol Bulmer

    Carol Bulmer Member

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    Location:
    Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
    I'm looking for an intermediate-sized tree to provide a bit of shade in my perennial border. I live in Peterborough, Ontario (zone 5, I believe) and would welcome suggestions and/or your experiences with either of these trees.
     
  2. Rima

    Rima Active Member

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    Location:
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    How much room would there be on all sides of the tree? How much strong wind do you get? Mag roots tend to spread widely and are shallow, the trees cannot take strong winds and do need a lot of water. Redbud would be better but it depends on available space, and your nights being so cold, the location might be iffy (but I bet someone will tell me I'm wrong about that!).
     
  3. Carol Bulmer

    Carol Bulmer Member

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    The space is relatively protected... east facing near a small shed and a six foot fence... I'm hoping it's a microclimate spot. Do you have any other suggestions for an intermediate-sized tree for this spot? I must say that my heart is set on a Redbud.

    Thanks for replying so quickly.

    Carol Bulmer
     
  4. Rima

    Rima Active Member

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    The question is still how much area you have (and whether your soil is fast draining, clayey, what? Roots can spread far and wide depending on the tree. Local nurseries are good bets for advice on what grows well where you are (they'll know better than us), but now is a lousy time to plant trees of course, late fall (while you can still dig tho') and early spring are much better.
     
  5. Carol Bulmer

    Carol Bulmer Member

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    Location:
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    Thank you. Our soil is on the sandy side and drains very well. We're now looking at Staghorn Sumac or Service Berry. However, we plan to check with local experts and probably won't be planting until spring.

    Thanks, again, for your advice.

    Carol Bulmer
     
  6. Rima

    Rima Active Member

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    Carol - Just so you know... sumac is invasive, and you might find little ones popping up all over your yard plus neighbour's.
     
  7. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    If you had your heart set on a Cercis, it is not clear to me why it would not work, since it is small and hardy to Zone 4. The following link does list its liabilities as being prone to various diseases, however.
    http://hcs.osu.edu/pocketgardener/source/description/ce_ensis.html. A list of cultivars is described at the following link; ‘Forest Pansy’ (Zone 5) seems to be quite popular around here.
    http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/factsheets/trees-new/cultivars/cercis_canadensis-table.html. http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ldplants/cecaf-i.htm (note the photographs). As far as an intermediate-sized tree for shade, one would assume that you mean one that would allow chairs beneath it, but perhaps you mean to allow shade-loving perennials as companions. If a Cercis will not work, is it the cordate (heart-shaped leaf) that you wanted or early spring flowers? We can try to get you something a bit closer to the look that you wanted. Personally I would consider a Katsura – Cercidiphyllum japonicum (hardy to Zone 4/5, leaves cordate, can be grown as a single trunk, available in predominantly salmon or yellow fall color, depending on seedling, beautiful) - even though the ultimate height may be larger than you are looking for. Dutchmaster Nurseries in Brougham list it is as 12.5 m in Ontario.
     
  8. smivies

    smivies Active Member

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    Location:
    Kingston, Ontario, Canada
    The nusery grown Cercis are not quite hardy enough to be reliable in Peterborough. They are good in Toronto, fairly reliable in Aurora, but in a sheltered rural area nearby, it dies back every 5 years. I would expect similar results in Peterborough.

    M. sieboldii will grow nicely in Kingston, ON but ideally (for hardiness purposes), I'd want to hear from Ottawa folks? I don't recall seeing M. sieboldii at the Dominion arboretum though it's listed on the Collection website (The Living Collection of the Dominion Arboretum). They do have lots of other Magnolias though, including M. tripetela & M. fraseri. Check out the website or better yet, make the trip....if it will grow in Ottawa, it should in Peterborough.

    Don't worry so much about soil conditions. Unless bedrock is only 2' under, most ornamentels will do quite nicely in your region.

    Katsura tree is beautiful but it is unlikely to stop growing at 12.5 m.

    Simon
     
  9. Carol Bulmer

    Carol Bulmer Member

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    Location:
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    Thank you, everyone for your input. We are still in the planning stages so I'll try to keep you posted as to the final decision.
     
  10. Chooch

    Chooch Active Member 10 Years

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    Location:
    SW Ontario 65 miles west of London / 33 miles sout
    If you really want a cercis tree , the only way to have a cold hardy reliable one is to find a fresh local seed source and start your own . If the seedling is happy it will grow to 4' + by the second year ; a first year seedling is usually 2' in height . Beware of improper pruning , root disturbance during transplanting , drought proned location , and nursery purchased stock . Happy Growing !!
     

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