My friend , Serena, found out this cherry tree strange, and she can't identify what this cultivar is. It is in the private property, so she may go back and wait for the owner's the permission to get a closer look. Another friend ,Tony, said he may carry his SLR camera to take the close-up photos. They are very enthusiastic. Any one can identify it?
I would have said 'Shirotae', though it's unfashionably late, and it's been pruned to look like a bouquet instead of having its naturally spreading shape. Please ask Serena and friend to get photos close up of the stems, to see if there are hairs, and of the calyx and sepals. That last photo is pretty good, though, showing the extra sepals. Please discuss the ID here in this Ornamental Cherries thread, so all the photos are together.
Really not white? I named it "white" based on the photos. That first photo is very white. Can you ask Serena?
Here comes more photos by Tonny Chan. All were taken on 04/20, except the first one , last year. No hair on the stem ，no glands.
If you can get a shot of the "prominent, darker, thread-like veins" like these on the petals of the Ito-kukuri at 2736 E. 54th (east of Vivian), that would nail the identification of your tree as Ito-kukuri. They are a river-delta network of lines, NOT like the faint lines running up and down on a lot of flowers, including Takasago (which tricked Lisa). Perhaps they appear more visible as the flower ages.
Is this tree fragrant? There are no phylloid pistils at all here. Of the trees we know, it looks most like 'Hosokawa-nioi', but that has a knock-your-socks-off fragrance. This might have too many petals for that; I do see one leaf without an attenuated tip, in the 5th photo in the second set. Some of my photos of 'Ito-kukuri' have no phylloid bits, but other photos do have them.
Because the tree is inside the property, so I can't tell frangrant or not and it is not easy to take a detailed photo of the flower. Here are some more photos to compare . Photos taken by Tony, Sunny and Janice. There first and the second show the tree in 14th W , the planting location and the flower color on 4/20. The third and the forth, fifth show the ito-kukuri flowers and leaves color on 54th & Vivian on 4/21 . The last one is ito-kukuri in Richmond worksafe BC.
Douglas Justice has gone to see the tree and suggests 'Yokihi'. What I like about that ID is that the flowers show no phylloid pistils in the centre of the flowers. I just saw 'Ito-kukuri' and 'Ojochin' at UBCBG yesterday that were totally white, so this tree being totally white I have to think could be ok too. However, in the Kitsilano thread, the posting just before this tree is 'Yokihi'. Maybe it was not the same people who saw the 'Yokihi', on the same street (!) and this one, that I called white on the subject line. Clearly the 'Yokihi' photos in our book were taken at a different stage of blooming. These are the photos that are in the book. Is there someone who knows where both those trees are and can compare them?
There are more photos for identifying , taken by Sandy , who took the Yokihi, the posting just before this tree is 'Yokihi', and the unknown one in roughly the same day. Some of my friends all saw both two, because their location is just one house in between. It's hard to believe both cherry trees are the same cultivar. The first row is the Yokihi and the second row is an unknown one . The unknown one:
OK, what about 'Hokusai', also known as 'Fukurokuju' ? Kuitert (Japanese Flowering Cherries, p. 247-249) writes them up together, yet shows a photo of different sepals of the two, which Kuitert has uploaded to ResearchGate. Here's a description from Fukurokuju - Keele University: Prunus 'Hokusai' is a Collingwood Ingram selection in 1925 from closely related clones, but identical to 'Fukurokuju'. A vase-shaped tree to 8 m high with a crown to 15m across. It forms large trees with big flowers - distinctive. Forms clusters of 3 - 5 flowers, purplish pink in bud opening to pale pink (RHS 69-C). Flowers are c.5 cm dia., with 10 - 15 petals opening to a flat plane. Flowers late April - early May. The ovary is always visible. Young foliage is bronze-green (RHS 152-A, 199-A). The Keele site writes up 'Hokusai' separately: Hokusai - Keele University A medium tree to 5m, upright and vase-shaped when young but spreading with age. The flowers are large, semi-double, pale pink and highly scented. The young foliage is bronze-coloure, turning gree over summer and yellow in the autumn. It is an old cultivar introduced by Collingwood Ingram and named after a well-known Japanese artist. What seems to match are the calyx shape, very short peduncles, lack of phylloid pistils, flowers opening to a flat plane, wrinkled flower appearance, blooming time, and bronze new leaves. And it's known in Seattle. What doesn't work for me are the fimbriated petal tips, which I don't see much in the many photos at Cherry var. Fukurokujyu – Flower and Garden in Japan and more… (khaawsflowerpicture.com), except for one. And I'm not too convinced about the stipules.
This question is going to be moot very soon. It's hard to believe that it's the same tree that I've photographed here, but the address is the same, the house is the same and the location on the property is the same. I posted some photos at https://forums.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/threads/kitsilano.36716/page-15#post-436678, and I mentioned that Green Club of BC member Jacqueline Lee has suggested that this is Cerasus serrulata ‘Nobilis’, which we would call 'Edo-zakura'. At this point, @Douglas Justice had misgivings, but that was the name I used in photos that day. Here are a bunch of photos from today, in which I'm calling it UnkTreeWhiteFlowers. It doesn't match the 'Edo-zakura' description in Kuitert, Japanese Flowering Cherries (Timber Press, 1999) on page 233 where he mentions mature leaves have "a relatively short acuminate top"; these leaves seem to have a long acuminate top. Also, the sepals in a photo above are not short and narrow. Today I thought it might be a very sick 'Ito-kukuri', but I don't think those stipules are "moderately to to deeply bifurcated", a characteristic Kuitert gives for 'Ito-kukuri' on page 177. Actually, I'm not convinced I saw the stipules - that should be easier to tell when the leaves are more developed. There are a few new leaves that seem to be missing the acuminate tip.
At Egan Davis's walk on April 30 I met Tony Chan, who contributed several of the photos above. He told me his current thought is that it's 'Taoyame'. That cultivar is described by Wybe Kuitert (Japanese Flowering Cherries, Timber Press, Portland, OR, 1999, pp 342-346): "Young foliage of 'Taoyame' appears with the blossoms and is perhaps the darkest red-brown of all Japanese flowering cherries. It contrasts superbly with the shell-pink flowers that have a calyx, sepals and peduncle that are equally deep wine-red, like the petioles of the young leaves." Tony's photos above are a little better than mine at demonstrating a calyx and a petiole closer to the colour of the dark leaves, but there are a lot of pedicels, calyces and petioles that are green, not at all dark red. Does that rule out 'Taoyame', or did we just not catch those things before they turned green? Here are some more photos, taken on May 2, 2023.
Sorry, long preamble here - Cherry Scout Manal Ma, who was with Tony Chan last weekend at Egan's walk, conveyed my 'Taoyame' thoughts to Tony, who agreed about the differences. Manal sent me a link to a Flickr album of 'Taoyame' in England, in which I see a very similar difference between a tree blanketed in flowers and with very few flowers, in a difference of 8 days. The tree named "Possible Prunus 'Taoyame' " taken April 6, 2020" Possible Prunus 'Taoyame' - Leyes Lane, Kenilworth 6.4.202… | Flickr The same tree (same house, car, daffodils at the foot of the tree, other plants in the yard) taken April 14, 2020 Possible Prunus 'Taoyame' - Leyes Lane, Kenilworth 14.4.20… | Flickr Here is the tree in google street view, not in the spring. So, maybe I have over-reacted about the condition of this tree, though my full-bloom photos this year look nothing like the ones taken in 2021. On the other hand, that UK tree out of bloom has a lot of terminal branches, whereas our tree in Vancouver has very few of the thinner flowering branches.
I Went to look those two lovely cherry blossoms at W 14th Ave? which neer Arbutus greenway. And, notice they should be the same. But, they might not be Yokihi, Yokihi’s come with lime new leaves. Those two come with amber new leaves, and no leafy like Ito-kukuri. In Japan, there is a kind cherry blossom named Cerasus serrulata ‘Nobilis’ エド 江戸 which is looks quite close to Yokihi and Ito-kukuri . I just want dream if they are the one.
I commented on that in posting #15. I'm guessing we would use the name 'Edo-zakura' for 'Nobilis'. The long leaf tips don't match the description in Kuitert's Japanese Ornamental Cherries. @Douglas Justice wanted to take cuttings from this tree, but there aren't any soft branches, except for what's shown in the 5th and 7th photos. All the flowers seem to be growing on hard wood or very close to it. Here are this year's photos, April 18, past their nice pink colour stage. Most of the leaves have long accuminate tips, but a few have no tips at all, similar to what happens on 'Ito-kukuri'. At the west corner of the block is the tree we think is the same, in even worse condition, and its flowers are even more past their prime (and harder to get to than previously).
