Hello all. Been reading through the forum and love the work you are doing here. I'm wondering if you can help me out. I just moved into a home in Boise, Idaho, USA...its 2,704 feet above sea level, and fairly arid (about 1 inch of precipitation a month, either rain or snow). Anyway, so I moved in, and was shocked after really looking at the trees...they are so close to each other and the house! I desperately need some ids on a few of the trees so I can find out about how tall they grow and how their roots/shoots do. Also, if you can give me some ideas about which ones to knock down and possibly replace, let me know. Most concerned about the backyard, which faces directly south. Oh, and terribly sorry....it is late in the season so very few leaves left.... Oh, and if you need better pictures, just let me know! Tree 1 (which is on the right) ...I believe its a locust of some sort? ->
Last little set....not really have to identify, since there aren't any leaves...but these trees are in a row in the back along the fence...the one tree is growing into the pine type one...just don't know what to do about it...can I just cut off two of the limbs? Anyway, those trees in the back are about 5 feet apart only! too close??
OK.....so here are the problems....the two trees right up against the house are about 6 years old, and are now a bit taller than my 2 story house. They are both 6 feet away from my house and the locust is 4 feet from my patio. They are 8 feet apart from each other....I'm already having problems with branches against the house, but I'm also worried about foundation and the locust roots causing my patio to raise up and crack. Should I cut down none, both, or one of em? Don't know.... The fruit bearing in front of the house is 4 feet away ....is it a big tree that will keep growing or how tall can I expect it to get? Oh...and if you need better pictures, just let me know!
Crabapple (Malus). Hundreds of kinds. Pinus reflexa 'Vanderwolf's Pyramid' Acer tataricum ssp. ginnala
Hi Mackgriggs, Tree 1 does appear to be a locust. These trees will mature at about 35' wide. The develop large surface roots over time and WILL lift sidewalks and driveways. Been there, lived that! It's also planted too deep as the rootflare doesn't show. I would remove it. http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/trees/ROBPSEA.pdf Tree 2 - River birch will mature at about 30' to 40' tall and gets an oval crown over time. It will eventually cover the roof of your house. Not a good thing for the roof or the house. It should have been planted at least 15' to 20' from the house. You might want to consider removing all but the outermost trunks and moving it. If you do move it, check to see if you can expose more of the rootflare. http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/trees/BETNIGB.pdf Tree 3 could be any of several crab apples and will most likely outgrow the space as the crown will eventually be about 20' wide. There are varieties that have a crown that matures anywhere from 10' to 15' wide as well. It also appears to be planted too deep. If you decide to plant another crabapple it's best to plant a cultivar with the smaller crabapples as the birds will be better able to eat them. http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/trees/MALSPPA.pdf I will go with Ron's id of Pinus reflexa 'Vanderwolf's Pyramid'. These trees can mature up to 30' wide over time, but 12' to 16' is more realistic for the near future. Acer tataricum ssp. ginnala will eventually mature at 15' to 20' tall and wide. You might want to remove the two closest to the pine. I can't quite see the base of the trees so check to see they aren't planted too deep. You can look up Acer tataricum ssp. ginnala, the crabapple (Malus) and the Pinus reflexa 'Vanderwolf's Pyramid' at this site. There are many varieties of the crabapple listed here and you might be able to id it from the description. I can only seem to get the cached version to load. http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...nderwolf's+Pyramid'&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=20&gl=us Rootflare info. http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/plantedtoodeeply.html http://www.tlcfortrees.info/planting depth.htm How to mulch trees. http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/mulching.aspx Newt
Ron and especially Newt, thank you very much for your help so far. If you would be so kind, could you answer these last remaining questions of mine? As far as the crabapple in the front, do the root systems of a typical crabapple grow so profoundly that it would undermine the 2 concrete driveways that are both 5' from its base? Thank you for your advice about the locust and river birch...it looks like I'll have to remove both of them since we can't get any sizeable equipment to our backyard to transplant them (and they are both probably too big anyway). However, I'm still mostly confused about the Pine and the 3 Acer tataricum ssp. ginnala. First off, the pine.....the base is 3' away from a community fence. From the attachment you can tell that the branches at the base of the tree are significantly smaller than the branches that are above the fence....should I be concerned about that? Will this tree grow within the confines created by the fence? (i.e....only grow a little bit towards the fence but grow outwards away from the fence?). Then the ginnalas. I said before that they were all 5 feet away from each other. Thus, if I cut down the two closest to the pine, the last ginnala and the pine would be 15' apart....does that sound about right? Even if the pine wasn't there...is 5' apart from each of the 3 ginnala's just too close anyway?
A lot of references treat this as a distinct species Acer ginnala (with good reason, too!); you'll probably get better info with that as a search
Here in USDA 8 we have: River birch over 80' tall, at least one more than 90' across An Amur maple that was 45' wide in 1993, others currently more than 30' tall Southern limber-pines (P. reflexa) over 60' high; judging from behavior of specimens I have seen 'Vanderwolf's Pyramid' would seem to be named for growing nearly as wide as high (when uncrowded) Depending on what is taken to constitute maturity, specifically, these can grow quite a bit bigger than dimensions given above; I doubt growth in USDA 7 will be that much less than in USDA 8. Probably since you are feeling boxed in by all of these trees, even calling it a "catastrophe" you will need to remove or transplant all of them to get what you want.
Mackgriggs, you are very welcome! I'll try and answer all your additional questions. If the crown of the tree will mature at 10' wide you shouldn't have any problems, at least for several years. Crabapples don't have large surface roots, but the potential problem can be that the roots will eventually grow beyond the dripline of the tree. This happens with all trees. Since you don't know what variety of crabapple you have, the risk is that the roots will eventually grow under the driveway. You might want to consider moving this tree. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/WO017 http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/trees_turf.aspx http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/MG/MG08900.pdf Not sure if the fence will deflect the limbs, but the limbs will most likely rub against the fence. Either way, it's not good for the tree or the fence. If the lower limbs are deflected enough it could cause the tree to be unbalanced. It would be wonderful if you could move it forward so the trunk is 10' to 15' from the fence. I'm guessing that you mean the center of the trunk will be 15' from the center of the trunk of the pine. Since the pine grows in a pyramidal shape you will probably be ok with that distance. If the mature crown of the ginnala grows to 20' at about 20' high, and the top of the pine at that height is about 10', you should have enough room for them not to rub. Careful pruning should take care of any potential rubbing problems at that point. You may experience shading of the lower limbs of the pine from the ginnala's crown. If you want to grow them as trees and not as shrubs, the limbs will eventually grow into each other and there could be rubbing. That can leave an opening for pests and diseases. It's best not for any limbs to rub each other in a tree. If you intend to grow them as shrubs you will need to continually prune them. If you need sites on how to transplant and b&b the rootball, just lmk. I also have some sites about narrow trees. Newt
OK, so thank you all for your help. I have removed 3 tress....the river birch, the locust, and one of the ginnalas. One more question though. The ginnala that I removed was butting up against the pine......and now I'm realizing that most of the limbs on the pine have been "shoved" away....i.e., the branches that should have been growing into the ginnala are now curved to one side or the other. Anyway....what should I do? Will the tree correct itself now that the ginnala is gone? Should I tie rope to the limbs and try and straighten them out? If I should use rope...I could take one limb that is going one way and tie it to a limb that is growing the opposite way so they would both be straighter.....or, should I put in a pole into the ground and then tie the limbs to the pole?
You are so very welcome! Glad you removed those. It does seem sad to have to do that, but I live in a neighborhood that was overplanted with trees and shrubs when it was newly built and the problems are glaring 30 years later. I doubt the tree will completely correct itself and may just keep growing in the same direction. If you tie the limbs to each other you have no way to control what happens. Tie each limb individually to a separate pole. Here's how to stake or guy a tree, but you can modify that for the limbs. You will need to check and make adjustments yearly. Don't force the limbs exactly where you want them. You will probably need to make adjustments for 2 to 3 years. Be sure to protect the bark with something like an old hose that's cut up. You'll see pics at the second site. Consider using a turnbuckle so you can adjust the tension when you need to without alot of trouble. http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/staking.html http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profiles1201/staking_trees.asp http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1141.html This site is for training apple trees, but has some great ideas that might work for you. If it's not a windy site and you need to adjust the angle of some of the limbs, the wooden spreader might work. http://learningstore.uwex.edu/pdf/A1959.pdf Hope that helps, Newt
