JM names and naming

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Siwasher, Aug 18, 2009.

  1. Siwasher

    Siwasher Member

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    Is there a central location where cultivar names are recorded, and is it online?
    Or, is there a way to find out who introduced a given cultivar? Do some cultivars just get casually introduced with no formal registration? Where/how does one register a cultivar? Where are naming rules posted? I've looked at the Maple Society website, but find it unhelpful in this regard.
    Specifically, I have problems with some names, e.g. Yama kagi should be Yama kage if it's supposed to translate Mountain Shadow. Hippy fin mo seems to make no sense in Japanese, etc., etc. More importantly, I and many others would like to be able to easily match descriptions with names, and this seems very possible technologically, but it doesn't seem to be happening. Any comments or suggestions? Thanks.
     
  2. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    Si,

    Have you seen the "Checklist" published in 2008 by Westonbirt?

    Your questions just scratch the surface of the confusion that surrounds JM cultivar names.
     
  3. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    Peter Gregory, manager emeritus of Westonbirt Arboretum in Gloucestershire, England, is the
    present world registrar of maples. As Gil mentioned above, Peter is responsible for the official
    "checklist. Peter is a well recognized mapple expert and author and a great guy. He can be
    reached no doubt by writing to him c/o Westonbirt Arboretum. Many of the maple names are
    much less attractive than the trees.
     
  4. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    To complete the answers given by Gil and Mike, the 'World Checklist of Maple Cultivar Names' is a best effort by Peter to compile cultivar names of traded maples circa 2008 (nonetheless I have already several which are not in the list!!) and it is not online. The correct statement to answer the question is 'Cultivar names may be registered with Peter Gregory'.

    ,
    In his compilation, Peter tried to track original introduction but for too many cultivars he was unable to find out. It is often a lot of detective work and this forum is a good source of information on this.

    Yes. The situation is completely out of control. In addition the (voluntary) registration serves only to verify that the proposed cultivar name has not already been used.

    International rules for cultivar names apply to maples as well.

    Maple what?

    Gomero
     
  5. kaspian

    kaspian Active Member 10 Years

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    Ha -- so true!

    My two peeves are (1) cutesy names like 'Krazy Krinkle' -- 'Peaches & Cream' comes dangerously close -- and (2) pseudo-botanical names like 'Atropurpureum' which tend to get mistaken for distinct subspecies or groups rather than distinct cultivars.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  6. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Talking of 'Krazy Krinkle', I see it has recently been renamed.......and is now listed as 'Kinky Krinkle'. (I am not making this up!)
     
  7. kaspian

    kaspian Active Member 10 Years

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    Please shoot me.
     
  8. Siwasher

    Siwasher Member

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    Katsura & Kaspian, don't get me started on cutsey and/or prosaic names, compared with the often poetically descriptive and evocative Japanese names. I'll address that issue another time. I'll be taking enough flack for what I'll have to say about the state of naming and registration. For now, I'll just add another name to your list: 'Kandi Kitchen'.
     
  9. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    For those who may not be familiar, as I said above, plant naming rules are spelled out by ICNCP (International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants http://www.ishs.org/sci/icracpco.htm) which is under the umbrella of the International Association for Plant Taxonomy. More specifically the naming of cultivars should follow the following rules and recommendations:

    1. The following are some of the Rules to follow when formulating a new name:
    (a) Make sure your proposed name is unique and that the epithet is in a modern language other than Latin. (ICNCP Art. 19.13-19.14)

    (b) Make sure that your name cannot be confused either in spelling or pronunciation with an existing one. (ICNCP Art. 19.15)

    (c) Make sure that your name could not be interpreted as being likely to exaggerate the merits of the cultivar. (Art. 19.26)

    (d) Make sure that the epithet of your name has no more than 10 syllables and no more than 30 characters, excluding spaces and the single quotation marks. (ICNCP Art. 19.15)

    (e) Make sure your epithet does not consist of a single letter or solely of numerals (ICNCP Art. 19.16)

    (f) Do not use any of the following banned words (or their equivalents in any language) in your epithet: "cultivar", "grex", "group", "hybrid", "maintenance", "mixture", "selection", "series", "sport", "strain", "variety" (or the plural form of these words in any language) or the words "improved" or "transformed". (ICNCP Art. 19.19-19.20)

    (g) Do not use any punctuation marks except for the apostrophe, the comma, a single exclamation mark, the hyphen and the full-stop (period). Do not use fractions or symbols unless they are specifically permitted. (ICNCP Art. 19.21-19.22)

    (h) Make sure that your epithet is not, or does not contain, the Latin or common name of its genus or the common name of any species in that genus if use of such might lead to confusion. (ICNCP Art. 19.23-19.24)

    (i) Make sure that publication of the cultivar's name is not against the wishes of its raiser or breeder. (ICNCP Art. 28.4)

    2. Other Recommendations to bear in mind:
    In addition to the Code's Rules for forming a new cultivar name, contravention of which will cause it to be rejected (ICNCP Art. 28.1), the following Recommendations, designed to avoid confusing or misleading buyers of plants, should be followed.

    (a) Epithets should be as short as possible and not difficult to write or pronunce. (ICNCP Rec. 19A.1)

    (b) Avoid epithets that might resemble terms used in the market-place. (ICNCP Rec. 19C.1)

    (c) Avoid epithets only made up of simple descriptive words that are likely to become common adjectives within a group of cultivars within the denomination class. (ICNCP Rec. 19D.1)

    (d) Avoid epithets that might give a false impression as to the attributes of the cultivar. (ICNCP Rec. 19E.1)

    (e) Avoid epithets that imply that the cultivar is derived from another when this is not the case. (ICNCP Rec. 19F.1)

    (f) Avoid epithets that give the false impression as to its raiser, breeder or origins. (ICNCP Rec. 19G.1)

    It would seem that 'Candy Kitchen', 'Krazy Krinkle' and 'Peaches and Cream' fit the rules and recomms (although some people may argue they do not follow recomm (d)). Even 'Olsen Frosted Strawberry' contains less than 10 syllables or 30 characters.

    Gomero
     
  10. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I wouldn't get too high-minded about the appropriateness of plant names. Personally, I think a lot of Japanese cultivar names are too much of a tongue twister for most English speakers. Don't tell me a name like "Aka shigitatsu sawa' isn't a turn-off to the average consumer. If you can't even pronounce it you're likely to pass it by. Its even more of a turn off when you learn that it means something like "snipes rising from the swamp" - yuck! 'Kandi Kitchin', on the other hand, sounds delicious! In fact, this cultivar was found growing beside a candy store, hence the name. And its a wonderful plant!! I love it! I also bought 'Olsen's Frosted Strawberry' for the name alone, and was not disappointed in the real thing - its gorgeous! The name conjures up a mental image that perfectly matches the color of the spring leaves.

    Naming the cultivar is the privelage of the originator. I'm much more interested in the plant itself than in the name it bears. One day, when I've discovered my own incredible cultivar and am ready to intruduce it to the world, I'll probably give it a name designed to upset the fanatical name purists. How does 'Smelly Goblin Fart Cupcakes' sound??! :D
     
  11. Siwasher

    Siwasher Member

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    It doesn't sound like anything I'd buy, but to each his own. You could put it right at the front of your trailer park.
     
  12. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I could comfortably put one on my 22 acres. Pehaps you'd like a stall?? LOL!
     
  13. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    LOL - I have often considered doing something very similar but for totally opposite reasons. If you ever see a cultivar named 'Uncle Maf`s Rose Lace Hood Ornament' you will know it is intended as a parody of all the twee names that, for me at least, seem inappropriate for elegant Japanese maples.
     
  14. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    ROTFLMAO!!! Maf, I can't wait to see that one - I'll buy if for sure!
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2009

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