Is this possible?

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Luke’s Maples, May 21, 2019.

  1. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Member

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    Hi all, me again.

    I have been offered this wonderful and huge looking tree at a very reasonable price. There is a fairly large issue though in that it is 150 miles away and still in the ground. The price they are asking is around what I paid for a 10 year old 6ft Bloodgood so it really is a bargain. I just can’t get my head around the logistics of getting it home.

    Does anyone have experience of dealing with this kind of situation and is there anyone in the UK who could point me in the right direction.

    Thanks in advance for any advice.

    Luke
     

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  2. Acerholic

    Acerholic Member Maple Society

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    Hi Luke, first of all I would not move a Maple at this time of year. Secondly have the owners prepared the roots over the past couple of years to encourage small fibrous roots to ensure a successful transplant. Personally we would not move something of this size until it is dormant and then wrapping the rootball in sacking. I know this is not want you want to hear, but it might not be the bargain you think it is if it dies soon after putting into your garden.
     
  3. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Member

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    Thanks for the very sensible advice. I don’t think the seller knows just how big a job this is. It is such a shame.
     
  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    They shouldn't be offering it to anybody in full leaf, unless they will allow it to be dug later, when dormant.

    Usefulness of root pruning prior to transplanting depends on roots formed in response to the pruning not being cut off when the specimen is dug up later. And thousands of trees and shrubs are dug every year from cultivated settings without having had any root pruning done beforehand, manage to survive anyway. In my area a number of large weeping lace-leaf Japanese maples have been salvaged by landscape nursery operations from historic properties and put on the market priced for sometimes tens of thousands of dollars. Almost certainly none of these have been root pruned beforehand.
     
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  5. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Member

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    I’m really not sure this person knows anything about this kind of tree. Maybe they are just redesigning their garden and wanted rid of it?!

    Am I right in thinking it is a Seiryu and that it potentially 30 years old? I feel sad that this tree may just be hacked down or dug up without the right prep and it ends up dying.

    Do any of you have the resources to undertake this?
     
  6. Kirkhutch

    Kirkhutch New Member

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    I haven’t moved anything nearly this big, but I’m wondering if the this might actually be somewhat easier than anticipated given that it is in an elevated planter. It looks like the planter would have prevented roots from going very far on three sides. I wonder if the owner might allow someone to remove the walls of the planter? Then only the roots on the one side would need to be cut. With the sides of the planter removed it would allow you to cut the roots underneath as well. If there is access to get a small trailer in the backyard it could be winched more easily since it is already elevated as opposed to being level with the ground. I agree it would need to be done in the winter months.
     
  7. Acerholic

    Acerholic Member Maple Society

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    Have you considered a visit to Westonbirt. When we were there in October 18 they were moving trees. (Large machines) I'm sure in the information centre they could advise on a reputable company to move the tree you want in the Autumn for your area. The maples are also wonderful there at this time of year before the Summer colours arrive.
     
  8. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Member

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    Oh yes.. we have been for the last 3 Autumns. It is magnificent! I really should go in the spring too. I will go and ask some questions when I go there next.
     
  9. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    It actually won't be particularly feasible to remove the tree in an intact condition without the planter having been disassembled first (something it seems unlikely the owners will want to do - look at how massive the timber walls of it are). Because with the elevated sides of the planter and the fence being right there, interfering with the use of spades (how would the handles be used to pry the tree up, after its roots were cut loose?). And in the second shot it looks like there may be an irrigation line present also, that will have to be avoided when cutting and lifting.
     
  10. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Member

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    Thanks

    I think I am going to admit to myself that it’s too big a job for someone like me who does not have the resources to tackle it.

    If anyone else fancies a go then the tree is for sale on eBay “Very large Acer tree”. The bid starts at £200 and there doesn’t appear to have had any interest yet.

    Thanks everyone
     
  11. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    Dormant is best, but it can be done during the growing season if great care is taken. The planter box will most likely be damaged in the process and or disassembled.

    You need cool rainy day(s), a root ball dolly, and a box truck with a lift for starters. A tarp on the floor of box truck. A few large plastic container and a bail of hay. Straw needs to be completely soaked and saturated either day before and additional on site. A few bags of ice. The raised planter is a God send and a curse if the property owner wants it undisturbed. Wet towels covering the root mass. Minimal root disruption is key and the soaked towles need to be placed on immediately. The root ball should be set on bed of wet straw on top of tarp in the truck. Strap down. Pile up wet straw burying the root ball completely in a large mound of wet straw. Spread ice all over the top of mound for a slow water during the trip. No not pile up ice around the trunk, just cover the top of the mound.

    On site, ideally the hole is already dug with a ramp dug out so it can be slid into the hole or root ball first on the dolly down the ramp. Totally saturate the surface area of roots. Hose set on mist on root ball while the tree is being planted. Keeping wet towels on top. Fill half way. Remove towels and set hose to shower. Totally saturate root ball and finish planting. Top 3"-4" above the soil line to adjust for further seteling with soil mounded gently up to meet the top outer sides of the root ball. Use a 1/4" spike and push into the surface down about 3" around the surface area of the roots and water the area, repeat if soil is compacted or dry especially in the case of dry loamy soil. Two inches of mulch on the surface, but not piled up around the trunk. A frost cloth can be used as a shade sail for 5-7 days to protect from direct afternoon sun exposure. Regular watering schedule is needed for the duration of the growing season. No chemical fertilizer. A high quality organic starter fertilizer can be used, but nothing higher than 7-7-7 and a slow release is preferred with beneficial microbes rhizosphere bacteria. (PHC Roots brand healthy start fertilizer or similar is preferred). If you prefer to use mycorrhizae it should be applied directly on to misted roots before planting. I find PHC Roots healthy start is much better than using mycorrhizae in my experience.

    If you do this on a hot day, chop most of the roots and wrap in burlap, throw in a back of a pickup truck or open trailer and go blowing down the road you will most certainly kill the tree. To do it right takes much effort and cutting any corners will most likely kill the tree. You need to be detail oriented and methodical to be successful. It sounds like I'm just making up a bunch of busy work and being overly cautious, but it is absolutely necessary to take all the proper precautions for success.

    This trees is seiryu and I estimate it to be 15-20 years old maybe older depending on site conditions. Once planted, it will start to grow fast and increase it's size by 30% by the third year. This cultivar can get quite large so give it plenty of space. Most people underestimate what this cultivar is capable of once established. I half jokingly say it grows like a weed in it's teens and early twenties. The trunk starts to thicken up fast too.

    If you can find a nice 10 to 20 gallon seiryu, you might be better off. They grow fast once established. So it will not take long to have a tree that size. A 10 gallon seiryu can easily reach 15 feet in 5 years if properly cared for and you don't use chemical fertilizer when planted in full sun. It maybe the cost effective route and it may save you from unforseen liability like accidental property damage or a back injury.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  12. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Member

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    Wow.. thank you for your very detailed (and scary) reply. I really am not experienced enough to deal with this transplant. I feel like contacting the owner/seller and letting him know quite how much work is involved, but I really don’t think he’ll believe me and/or care.

    I would love to think this tree will go to a good home and if anyone on here decides to take it on then I’d love to hear how it goes.

    Although it is a lot of work, it is surely better than waiting 15 years for a young one to grow.

    Here is my 3-4 year old Seiryu haha
     

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  13. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    If it we're dormant it would cut down most of the risk to the tree and 85% the effort to minimize stress.

    Both of those seiryu are beautiful in their own way. You should be proud of your young tree. The old one is majestic but it could be a heart breaker /headache if things don't go right.
     
  14. Acerholic

    Acerholic Member Maple Society

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    Hi Luke, think you have made a wise decision!! And can I second the remark from JTI, your maple is in excellent shape and condition now and will be a wonderful specimen in a few years. We have always bought young maples and have got so much pleasure in bringing them on ourselves. PS Have just succomed to another temptation today and ordered a new cultivar from Burncoose. Acer palmatum Metamorphosa. I will update the Maple forum when I receive it as it's not covered yet.
     
  15. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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  16. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    Linda's talking about B-1. If you look at what I recommend it does not promote benefits of B-1, it's not even on the label. Linda states "transplant fertilizers" as if they are all created equal. This is a new product and there is a lot of great research about the benefits of rhizosphere bacteria. We are not talking about B-1. I think she needs to write something more up to date. Science and research is moving faster than she can keep up with in her out of date generalization of "transplant fertilizer". Fighting to keep phosphorus out of a transplant fertilizer is wasting time in my opinion. If you write off a product based on phosphorus alone you are selling yourself short. You would be missing the big picture. Focusing on the useless!
     

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    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  17. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Member

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    Thanks Acerholic. Yes I also enjoy watching them grow from young. Well I say that, but really it’s quite early on in my Acer addiction so haven’t really seen any grow into “specimens” yet.

    I have just had a look at the selection at Burncoose. The Metamorphosa looks very pretty indeed. Please do post some pics when it arrives.

    I have been trawling the net over the last few weeks looking for a new addition to my modest collection. I love my Koto-No-Ito and would like something to compliment it. Something similar but red. I have looked at Red Pygmy, Enkan and Beni Otake. I also have Two green Dissectums and an Orangeola. I would also like a new red Dissectum to go with these. I’m not to fussy about the growth habit etc but I’d like something that holds its red through summer if possible. A lot of my trees are red in Autumn so would love something that potentially lightens to orange/yellow.

    Any suggestions?
     
  18. seagonus

    seagonus Active Member 10 Years

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    I posted these awhile back when the tree was smaller. I am always amazed at the "estimated size" of Japanese maples and then the "real world" size that is achievable. I don't think that the tree in the photo by the original poster is 30 years old, but who knows. Maybe in drier climates these things grow smaller. We live in the PNW.

    The Seiryu in these photos is by my estimate 40 years old (maybe up to 10 years less than that). The person in the photo is my daughter and she is 5 feet tall. This tree is regularly climbed by me and my family to the top (around 20 feet). The trunk is thicker than a 10 gallon bucket. It was damaged severely last year by an ice storm, but that seemed to rejuvenate it. the tree almost split, but looks to have put out sap and healed one of the large cracks. My neighbor hates the tree (because it puts out so many seedlings in his yard) and he has asked me on a couple of occasions to trim large branches (to which I reluctantly agreed while my daughter started crying). I do wish I had this in a better corner of the yard where it could come closer to reaching its maximum potential.
     

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  19. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    A good red is
    Acer palmatum 'Tamukeyama'
    A very nice dwarf red for more shade is Acer palmatum 'Red Filigree Lace' holds deep red even in shade all summer long.

    One that is constantly changing colors an old but great cultivar and has orange fall color is 'Pendulum Julian'.

    Beni Otake is a great choice with koto no it. Holds red all summer. Red pygmy will get more green where Beni Otake stays red all summer long
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  20. Acerholic

    Acerholic Member Maple Society

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    Hi Luke, a lot of reds turn green through the Summer. One Maple that stays a vibrant red all through the Summer is Skeeters Broom. Now this is nothing like koto no ito, but if you want to brighten part of your garden with a lovely red and a hardy maple then you can't go far wrong with Skeeters Broom. I do agree that Enkan and Red Pygmy would sit well alongside your koto no ito. Out of the two I personally prefer Red Pygmy.
    I will post some photos of Metamorphosa as soon as I can but Burncoose are at Chelsea atm so it might be a while before it's delivered. If you are interested in larger rare specimens, take a look at Junkers. They also stock the ghost series that we are very fond of. Happy hunting !!!
     
  21. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    A beautiful tree! Thanks for sharing! Corn gluten put down in the spring will keep maple seeds from germinating. In our area a company makes it called "Good nature". The key is to get it down very early in late winter. Must be down before germination as a preventer. Several other companies make a similar product. Don't use weed killer or weed and feed around any trees but especially old maples. The toxin gets stored in the sugars and continues to weaken the tree each season.

    ARS makes very nice pole pruners that are precise enough to trim back new growth. Maybe instead of sawing off a thick branch you can prune back thinner growth and reduce it before it thickens up. Removing thick branches from old Japanese maples can cause the bark to rot down the trunk and lead to trunk rot in my area. I see it too often. Maybe PNW is more forgiving with the milder winter's. Luckily seiryu is fast at forming wound wood to close things up. But the older the tree gets the harder it is for it to recover.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  22. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Member

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    Wow.. A truly beautiful tree. What amazing colours, especially with the setting sun behind. It must have been very difficult indeed to agree to cut those branches down.
     
  23. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Member

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    Thanks, I will take a look at those. I love the name Pendulum Julian!
     
  24. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Member

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    Yes I also like the Ghosts. There are a few though and I really wouldn’t know which to get. I wish nurseries like this were closer so I could pop over and take a proper look. I will have a look at Red Pygmy and Skeeters Broom. Thanks
     
  25. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    Amber ghost is a favorite of many. It was one of my favorites but it didn't survive when we had a month below 0F and had 4 days near -30F. But it is very hardy, you will have no problems. Sister ghost is one that survived those temperatures and is a nice bushy white with green veins all summer.

    If you get into variegated check out kagari nishiki.

    Acer shirasawanum Autumn moon always gets attention from garden visitors. Acer palmatum corallinum is a beautiful dwarf with great changing colors all season. Acer palmatum mikazuki is great pink in shade but still holds color long in sun.

    Acer palmatum summer gold is one of the best season long yellows that takes heat and full sun.

    Anyway I have given too many to research so I will stop.
     

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