Is this Leopoldii Acer pseudoplatanus?

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Justine M, Apr 25, 2010.

  1. Justine M

    Justine M Active Member

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    I just found this seedling in an area that -- last year -- had two firs and a cedar growing! I had to cut them down and I had the stumps ground into chips. I found this seedling in that very area today (April 25).

    Is it Leopoldii Acer pseudoplatanus? The stem is red but the underneath of the leaves is the same colour as the top (not purple as some of the literature says it should be).

    You can still see the cotyledons.

    Maybe it's an entirely different plant. Hope you can help with the identification!

    Thanks..............
     

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  2. emery

    emery Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi Justine,

    Acer pseudoplatanus 'Leopoldii' is a specific clone (i.e. propagated vegetally -- by graft, rooted cutting or layering) so by definition this cannot be it. Your plant is also so far more cream than Leopoldii is on most leaves.

    What you have is a lovely variegated seedling A. pseudoplatanus. Time will tell how well it retains its variegation, which tends to be quite variable with the first few sets of leaves.

    Without the purple leaf undersides the plant will most likely sunburn very easily, so if the current location is too sunny (or you don't want a sycamore there) it would be a good idea to carefully move it to a pot after it loses its leaves this fall, and possibly provide it with some shade in the mean time.

    Many such sycamores don't get too large and respond well to pruning, so you may find this is an excellent border plant for a shady area.

    Congratulations on a fantastic find!

    -E

    P.S. This thread should probably be moved to the regular maple forum.
     
  3. Justine M

    Justine M Active Member

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    Hi Emery,

    I don't know how to move this thread (sorry about putting it in the wrong forum!) so I hope an expert will make the move for me.

    Do you think the sycamore is spotted green due to chlorosis? The area it is growing in was probably extremely acidic -- soil that laid under fir and cedars for years and that more recently has fresh wood chips from same mixed into it.

    I am about to make new garden beds in the very area I found the seedling. You suggest that I relocate it at the end of the summer. I'll have to do it next week I think. Is this okay?! And a pot is better than directly in the soil I take it.

    Thank you Emery for your quick reply and great info.

    Justine
     
  4. emery

    emery Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi Justine,

    Your thread was already moved by one of the moderators. Not to worry! Anyone can accidentally post to the wrong forum.

    No chance your plant is chlorotic. It's a genuine variegation, and a very pretty one too. I haven't seen one quite like it, and I'm pretty familiar with the variegated sycamores. Now, whether is stays like that, or falls into a more common pattern, or stays variegated at all, is anyone's guess at this point. Although with such a strong amount of white/cream I'd say there's an excellent chance it will stay variegated.

    A pretty seedling like this may well come from Leopoldii or Nizetti, if you have one of those growing in the neighborhood. I have a Corstorphinense that throws variegated offspring sometimes. Otherwise from regular sycamores variegated children are rare, I let thousands of them come into leaf each year looking for something interesting (and don't often find it).

    The plant may be young enough to survive moving now, if you can carefully keep the soil around the young roots intact. Under those circumstances a shady garden bed is as good as a pot, assuming the plant gets watered enough. Sycamores are somewhat more tolerant than some other maples to overwatering, but like to dry out between waterings given druthers. The only reason I choose a pot for such a seedling is that it's rare and I can really baby it.

    Good luck, I hope it lives. If so, maybe you could send us a picture when some more mature leaves come in.

    cheers,

    -E
     
  5. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    Justine 7 emery-
    I grow Leopoldii seedlings and have quite a few right now and yours do NOT look like
    Leopoldii because yours have leaves with 3 lobes and ALL mine have 1 single lobed leaves.
    My stems are green not red. I keep records of my mother plants and I know mine is a Leopoldii.
    Your leaves and mine have the same variegation and are lovely & I have older Leopoldii seedlings as
    well and emery is quite correct that the variegation will vary (sorry about the pun). I would say yours
    is a variegated pseudoplatanus but I am not sure which one - whatever it is it is lovely.
     
  6. Justine M

    Justine M Active Member

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    Thank you for your comments and info Emory and Katsura!

    I transplanted the seedling to a tiny pot and hope it will continue to grow and keep it's variegation. For sure I will come back and up date you. Katsura, do you know which variety has three lobes instead of 1 like Leopoldii? What I am uncertain of is whether "variegated sycamore" means it's a pure sycamore that just happens to be variegated, or if that is a type unto itself. How did Leopoldii and Nizetti come into being?

    It's funny that it would land in my east Vancouver backyard (just 33 feet across). It's mostly lawn with a big Norway spruce and the edge which formerly had the firs and cedars. I don't think I've ever seen variegated sycamores in our neighbourhood, but I am keeping my eyes open for them now. We have variegated false coffee trees in our boulevard planting... I'll check to see if these look at all like sycamores! Anyway, I'll post more images later in the summer if the seeedling continues to be so showy. Thanks, Justine
     
  7. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    Justine,
    Your variegate is a maple not a sycamore. It's Latin name is acer pseudoplatanus. They call them 'sycamore maples'.
    You ask good questions. My knowledge here is sketchy. Leopoldii was named for King Leopold of the Belgians - I think it
    was the Leopold who owned the Belgian Congo but it could be his father. This was later 19th century and these pseudoplatanuses
    seem more identified with western Europe. Adult Leopoldii, Nizetii, Simon Louis Frere, Esk Sunset etc (there are 10-12 I know of)
    all have mutiple lobe or points leaves but when they are new seedlings all mine have a single lobe. Your questions and your picture
    intrigued me because I now will watch mine to see WHEN their leaves transition from single to multiple lobes and will revisit this
    thread then. Notice how the 2nd set of leaves (which are green and smaller) are single lobed and not multi lobed and not much if at all
    variegated. Watch how they transition as they grow bigger. The cotyledrons (those 2 long thin 'leaves' which were the 1st ones your
    seedling spread) are exactly like the ones on mine which is 1 of the major reasons I believe your lovely is an acer pseudoplatanus.
    It is lovely and have fun with it. Grow with it.
     
  8. emery

    emery Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    "They" would mean "me", Mike! A. pseudoplatanus is the native maple of western Europe, where it is referred to as a sycamore. Both the French and British agree about it, which is rare enough! This sometimes creates confusion with the Etatunisians (as inhabitants of the hexagon might say) who call the London Plane, Platanus occidentalis, a sycamore.

    The first set of leaves after the cotyledons are visible in Justine's pictures, with the outside lobes pretty suppressed as we would expect. They do show the variegation, but it's not obvious yet. The pretty leaves we see are the next set which have fallen into the pseudoplatanus mode.

    The first set of real leaves exhibits a fair amount of polymorphism, some are clearly trilobed, some simply cordate, usually they are simple but occasionally quite distorted. Typically the second set reverts to the normal pattern, but it is here that the possible characteristics start to come out. Whether they last is another question!

    I have a handful of interesting candidates this year, but it's too early for the second set of leaves to have come out yet.

    Is it true that Leopoldii throws a lot of interesting seedlings, does anyone know?

    -E
     
  9. Justine M

    Justine M Active Member

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    Emery (is your first name Mike? I was a little confused!) and Katsura... you both are so knowledgeable. Thanks for clarifying so many things. Still waiting to see how the rest of the leaves unfurl. Will report back. The next set of leaves look more of a mottled green and orange, but as you rightly point out, this little darling is still finding its way in a wacky world!
     
  10. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    Justine,
    My name is Mike.
    emery was addressing me in the 1st sentence of his last post.
     
  11. Justine M

    Justine M Active Member

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    O-o-o-oh! Got it!!
     
  12. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    this is one crazy year for maple seed i found 4!!baby maples ,like Justine!i have a good number of pseudoplatanus cultivar,but ,and this news is for Emery only near Leopoldii i found this baby maples..
     
  13. emery

    emery Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Thanks Alex, and congratulations!

    Sorry about the confusion, Justine. :)

    -E
     
  14. Justine M

    Justine M Active Member

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    Hi friends!

    Thought I would share with you the next photo of the little seedling. The 2nd set of leaves have a different sort of variegation, more yellows and reds than the pure green and white of the first set...

    Also I think I attached another seedling I found right beside the variegated one. This one has red stems and a reddish start to the second leaves. No variegation though.

    I found both of these seedlings in heavy soil. Should I be trying to scrape some of the clay away? how do I offer them more humus without damaging their delicate roots?

    Thanks...
     

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  15. Justine M

    Justine M Active Member

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    This time with all three images I hope!
     

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  16. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    not remove clay soilif born in this soil,clay soil is good for your baby maples...
     
  17. Justine M

    Justine M Active Member

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    Hi Alex,
    Is that common for maples? I recently bought a 1.5 meter tall acer palmatum that was wrapped in burlap and was surprised that it's root ball was also in clay-dense soil.
    Thanks.
     
  18. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    because clay in clay soil the water remain for long time,the last method in use in E.U .nurseries is add pine bark in the hole for good drainage. Palmatum maple want a correct umidity soil ,more wet with fast drainage.
     
  19. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    my baby maples uhmm i'm not sure pseudoplatanus any ideas?
     

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  20. Justine M

    Justine M Active Member

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    Lovely! They look related to the one I found, but I'm no expert, that's for sure!
     
  21. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    very nice "babies", alex.
    you must be a proud "papa"
     
  22. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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  23. Justine M

    Justine M Active Member

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    Hey Alex, how are your babies doing? Thought I would share with you, Emery and the others that have been contributing/following what mine is now looking like. I am hoping that eventually we can ascertain the type of tree seedling this might be! Hope you are all enjoying a great spring...
     

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  24. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    NICE!! mine haven't a good progress,italian climate this year ,is not normal many rain and "low" temperature some maples like negundo Variegated "think"that is start autumn ...
     
  25. Justine M

    Justine M Active Member

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    Here in Vancouver, on the west coast of Canada, our last month has been quite cool and rainy too. We are all fearful we'll be sprouting moss! But my plants are growing, especially grass and weeds! Hope your area of Italy warms up so your negundos are no longer confused!
     

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