The leaves certainly looks like sugar maple, and I just want to ensure that there is no chance that it could be A. nigrum. I have pictures of the whole seed as well, if it would be helpful. Thank you! --------------------------------------------- Last fall I gathered a bunch of seeds from two different, but relatively nearby, sites from trees that I knew were A. nigrum and A. saccharum, but because the seeds were scattered I wasn't sure which seeds came from which tree. So I turned it into an experiment to hopefully find some morphological differences between the two species seeds (basically impossible, they are EXTREMELY similar in seed morphology and I totally understand why it's often considered a subspecies). Anyway, almost all the seeds have sprouted. I did get some seeds as a control from A. nigrum, but they haven't expressed their true leaves yet so I have no comparison, and my cats chewed them up so I don't expect them to develop further for a while due to the stress. I have so many seedlings that I want to sell some off once I can identify them and no longer need them for the experiment, but because I want to sell them I want to be absolutely sure I know what I'm selling.
Hello, They also hybridize readily. I'm afraid your seedling will be too young to be sure of! Though as you point out, the leaves look more like saccharum. (BTW, A. nigrum is now considered a distinct species. Again.) I believe nigrum is the only one in the saccharum complex that has stipules on the petioles. So that would be an identifier, or the lack of them (Although they might be absent on some leaves, of course). I received some seedlings of A. nigrum, from upstate NY, here this winter, we're quite excited as the non-hybridized tree is very rare in Europe. Looking forward to seeing the stipules! :) cheers and good luck, -E
I'd agree this looks more like A. saccharum; the main cited difference is that A. nigrum leaves are substantially 3-lobed, with the basal pair of lobes only very weakly developed, unlike A. saccharum where they are well-developed and make the leaf obviously 5-lobed. The other important difference is that A. nigrum has pubescent petioles and leaf undersides - can you get some sharply-focussed pics of these, please? My references don't say anything about stipules, I don't know if that's reliable.
Thank you for the information, I appreciate it! I'm excited for you guys that you've gotten your hands on some A. nigrum. They have an absolutely brilliant fall color and I don't think you will have any regrets.
Absolutely, I took some pictures and here they are. I'm not sure if they appear in order, but the first two are from the same seedling as the initial post. There is minor pubescence on the petiole (literally just 1 or 2 hairs per petiole) and underside of the leaf (more so on the edges of the leaf). The third picture is of my A. nigrum control seedling, and as you can see it is significantly more hairy (the picture could be better, but that hairy-ness goes along the whole petiole, on both sides). I'm no expert, but I interpret this as being some degree of hybridization, which would make sense for my area. I assume the reduced number of pubescence means that there is hybridization, while the control is more-so or mostly A. nigrum at best. How does that sound?
I agree also. Reference is Maples of the World, van Gelderen et al. I've also discussed this specific feature, looking at the tree at Wespelaar, with de Jong and Camelbeke, it does seem pretty reliable. Of course these are Europeans discussing an American tree! @RookiePresent I know the fall color well, as I grew up in NY and have a lot of family in Maine. But unfortunately they don't color as well in Normandie, our climate is too mild. cheers, -E
For exactly that reason, I'd be dubious of its value, until verified by extensive checking of wild native populations of the two taxa. Basing a supposedly diagnostic character on the basis of a few (or even a single) tree(s) is very unreliable!
