hi last fall i pruned my sangokaku because of crossing little woods. I used sterilsed tools During this winter, black spots appeared near the pruned woods. I fear for verticiliose is it verticiliose or can it be another fungus? my acers like the place i live (france near bordeaux in the wood with an acid and sany soil) so i never had any problem with verticiliose The tree is here since 3 years and grows without problem since this winter i try to check "under" the bark to see if there was still life and it is ok but i wounded the acer which is now bleeding! what can i do? there are 5 others maples nearby what should i do? thanks a lot for your precious advices and sorry for my english!
big ,i see that you use ash around the trunk why? ash up the PH of soil .....you maple bleeding because in this period (in some zone)is wide and the lymph is in circulation change period of pruning ,however no problem ... the first question are difficult for me because (good news, black spot not is on base of trunk..) i see this spot on my acer after hot summer , acer is in life again... You read FAQ verticellum and relative ?is a good FAQ ,also in start page there is one good thread about bark problems.....salut alex
thanks for this first answer i use ashes for the potassium in it only small amout once a year my soil is acid so the rise of ph is not a pb (i think so) i already read all ths posts on verticiliose and it is really difficult to know what is striking may sangokaku do the black splot alwways comme from the base of the trunk? it seems ok here EMERY on this forum said that he had the same pb with a sangokaku (black spots) and the acer is still in life with normal growth concerning the bleeding, should i stop it using a specific product or should i let it go? thanks again
i not use specific product for bledding ..,i see in my maples that if the black spot are in base trunk the maple dead in two week...
The wet lesion is caused by a bacterium that was already in the plant by way of propagation. Much easier seen in the Winter months but can be seen during the growing season when the tree has been stressed. "Have seen this on several maples here, the top does tend to die above the black area." This quote above is very true. Really hard to accept at times but if we do not prune out the lesion it will spread up the tree first and then move down the tree to the graft union if there is one. Once in the graft union the disease will choke off nutrient and water flow to the rest of the tree. Recommendation and it will not be to your liking is to prune out all of the top now making your pruning cut about 2" below the first sign of the black colored lesion. Make a new fork from both main branches about the same height with flat, horizontal cuts, then use a Copper based fungicide and spray the entire tree soon after you do the pruning. Start this tree over and hope for the best. Not pruning out the lesion will lead to this trees eventual demise. It can take up to a few years to come to fruition but steps taken now to prevent that occurrence can lead to this tree living a whole lot longer. The wetness emanating from the lesion is what a gummosis looks like on a Japanese Maple. The black colored covering over the pruning wounds is due to a secondary invading fungus and is not a problem to the tree. The tree does have Verticillium alboatrum in its system but the signs of the disease is not enough to kill the tree at the present time. Your main worry is the bacterium. Jim
i am going to listen to your advice firts , i will remove the acer and put it away from the others and then i will prune it even if it kills me to do that! can i plant another maple in the same place? how can i sterilise the soil? tahnks again
some news i sent some photos of the sangokaku to Guy Maillot http://www.maillot-erable.com/ he is a french sepcialist of japanese maples for him it is not verticiliose It does not appear during winter and the black spots are really different for him it is a fungus that will probably not kill the acer. It needs care with fungicide (for him a product for roses black spot will be ok) he also told me that it will be a good idea to isolate it from the others maples i really don't know about this because it is a quite big acer can fungus (not verticiliose) strike the other maples? thanks again!
Bigjohn, You should listen to what Mr. Shep took the effort to tell you, he is right in his explanation and I fully agree with his advice on pruning. If someone else has a different explanation, this forum is probably the right place to gain credibility. I am more doubtful about the usefulness of fungicides taking into account the problem is of bacterial origin. However if the application is restricted to the branches without drenching the ground I have no objection to it. I would regard the tree, after pruning, as a living organism that has gone through a major stress (disease+ major surgery) requiring loving and tender care. That means regular watering, good mulching, healthy dose of suitable organic fertilizer (even if a soil analysis does not show any major deficiency) and addition of beneficial microoorganisms to the root zone (mycorrhizae, EM). If you read the Verticillium (Verticiliose in French) thread in the FAQ, you can learn that symptoms mainly appear in the summer time and much more. Gomero
BigJohn, Been away from the forum for a couple of days, so I will answer here. If you want to discuss it in French you can email me again. I also agree with Mr. Shep, but I don't think I'd move the tree, which will stress it even further. This is similar to what my Sango kaku was suffering from, but my case was not as bad. Thankfully, because it was near the base of the trunk so that pruning was not an option. I don't think it is "catching" if you practice normal garden hygiene. I sprayed with fungicide but also did my best to dry out the roots (drainage always a problem here) by aerating the soil. Also a light fertilization in spring. Result is that the spot scabbed over in part, and part of the cambium died: but with healthy edges that swelled well, and trunk growth continues. I cannot say what the future will bring but for now this sango kaku is OK. Still as I say the entire ring of cambium was not effected by the condition in my case. As for the ash, I do not use it around maples even though I also have acid soil. My sense is that especially thick applications as you have in the photo tend to bog the soil. Gomero, your second sentence shows you should be a politician! ;) -E
thanks again for the very rich answers have you any idea about a risk og propagation of the fungus to the nearby maples? that's an incredible forum here!! thanks again
I should have noted, as I did to bigjohn separately, that I used fungicide as a precaution against fungal infestation in the necrotic tissue. Not to cure the (as I deemed it) pseudomonas bacteria. -E
Many Maples of the past have been able to hold their own, not thrive but live for many years with this bacterial disease and Verticillium alboatrum in their systems. In some growing areas the trees do not stress enough to show one of both of the symptoms while both are residing in the plant. The bacterial disease in question is not Tight Bark, of which it coinciding along with Verticillium alboatrum can be a rather difficult growing situation to deal with once we see the effects of the Tight Bark. Verticillium alboatrum is not the quick decline wilt form of Verticillium and by itself seldom kills a Maple but in combination with such a debilitating disease to new growth as Tight Bark is and the resulting wood loss from its destruction without adequate new wood to replace the wood that was lost, then that combination of Tight Bark and Verticillium alboatrum has become the second most lethal disease we have in Maples. Currently, it is the single most destructive combination we have in Maples today. Both the bacterial form we see in this plant that can yield a wet lesion, whereas in contrast Tight Bark yields a dry lesion, along with the Verticillium alboatrum in the plants system came from propagation. It used to be felt by an array of people that the alboatrum form of Verticillium was passed on from plant to plant, even from seed, was present in some form in all Japanese Maples. I have only seen a couple of cultivars that I felt were relatively free of the disease, free enough not to show much evidence in the wood and later from the loss of growth due to dieback. So many Maples have this form in their systems that it has become second nature to some people not to be overly concerned about the disease unless we endure a series of plant stresses in which we see some wood loss that is not replaced in time by some new growth wood. The problem with Tight Bark is that we do not get new wood where the disease has attacked but can get new wood from below the deadened areas but we can also lose this new wood soon as well. Tight Bark is the most debilitating disease over time to a Japanese Maple that we have once it hits the plant. Again some growing areas may not see evidence of this disease but propagated plants of theirs grown on elsewhere can and do show the symptoms of this disease. I would not move the plant at all as the cutting of the roots would add undue stress to this tree. I'd leave this tree right where it is and hope that once you prune this tree back that you will trigger the roots to set out new root shoot development that will help sustain this tree and force out new growth. Some people feel that pruning the top will not force the tree to yield new root shoot development and sometimes it will not but in most cases it will signal the roots to set out new growth and in many plants this has been proven over and over over time that in most woody trees that new growth in the roots is initiated. But other factors can or may preclude or help prevent this from happening all of the time for woody plants as some do not respond well this way but for several Maples this is not the case for them. The form of Verticillium in this tree will not adversely affect nearby plants. The pathogen is not in the soil but in the trees system. This is not to say that another form of Verticillium is not in the soil but as of now it seems highly doubtful there is the quick decline form in the soil as then most likely this tree would already be dead. If this tree leafs out in the Spring after being stressed this bad again and does not perish then the likelihood that the quick decline form is in the soil or in the plant is pretty remote. Copper based fungicides have been used for years on many trees and shrubs for bacterial and fungal suppression. If some people have a problem using elemental Copper then Calcium such as a Calcium hydroxide form can be used instead. Be very careful using a Lime sulfur spray on any Maple during freezing cold or overly warm weather as this can and usually does lead to wood injury. Sulfur dust applied with or without a wetting agent or a sticker can be useful for us also. Fungicide drenches are seldom needed around here in such a warm and dry climate but in some areas of Oregon and elsewhere that are notorious for having soils that can harbor water mold fungi (the soil temperatures do not get warm enough to effectively kill the fungi) and can also experience blast forms of fungi in some years as well as the Spring and Summer blast forms of bacteria for some trees, then soil drenches may be prudent for a growing operation to allow for some protection to the trees during the growing season. We do not need to worry about using a soil drench but even coastal and inland coastal areas of Northern California have used soil drenches in the past for fungal and bacterial suppression and no one is going to tell them or advise them not to use them when they feel they are needed. Ever see what Tar spot alone harbored by neighboring native trees can do in mid Spring to a series of North Coast grown Maples then some people may want to reconsider to tell those growers they are being foolish to use fungicides. See a Sycamore Maple get badly disfigured in the Spring and set there and not do much for the rest of the year makes it real tough to sell it. Jim
Specimen with trunks pruned out would be replacing top growth it would have made from branch tips on those trunks with basal growth it might not have made otherwise. Many trees and shrubs have dormant buds on stems that come to life when flow of hormones from roots ends farther down, where they are instead of at tip of stem that was cut off or back. The annual routine opening of the overwintering dormant buds at ends of stems is triggered by hormones sent from roots, when new roots grow in spring. In fall, setting of dormant buds at stem tips results in hormones being sent to roots which produces largest amount of elongation of existing roots for entire year. Plant is integrated system just as we are, cutting away part of it affects the remainder.
Hi all, Good thoughts and comments from all. Sango kaku has always been more susceptible to blight problems and yes, I have done the drastic deed and pruned a tree in half. What was left wasn't worth keeping. Do any of you use "Agrimyicin". not sure if I spelled it quite right, but it is an antibotic for maples. I do use fungicides, but sometimes with really wet and warm springs the greenhouse is a petrie dish for bacteria. Gomero - glad to here you are using mycorrhizae. I am totally convinced that this beneficial root bacteria is helping my maples grow faster and healthier. I have been innoculating all one gallons for two years now and not only have they grown faster, but with less fungal issues. Sam
Ahem!!, they are naturally-occuring soil fungi. But I agree with you on their beneficial effect on maples. Their presence also seems to keep 'bad' fungi at bay. Gomero
Gomero, do you have a brand for mycorrhizae here? I don't recall seeing them for sale in garden centers. Sam, when you say "innoculating" do you mean injecting with a syringe? We've seen some "juiced maples" that are inoculated, put on big growth but then tend to die back when the treatment stops. -E
Emery, They are found quite easily, but you have to read the small print in the box. Generally they are sold as 'stimulateur racinaire'. Check at your local garden centers, the Botanic chain carries several brands for sure. Here is a link http://boutique.aujardin.info/boutique-TraitementsBio-Iftech.php Gomero
Emery and Gomero, I buy direct from www.mycoapply.com or www.mycorrihizae.com or you can email Dr. Mike at info@mycorrihizae.com When I say innoculate, I mean every single maple receives this beneficial fungi which then attaches to the root system and stays with the maple for life. Have you heard of Monrovia nursery in the US. a giant retail supplier to garden centers and nurseries; they all innoculate every plant they produce. Thanks, Sam
Mycorrhizae is the phenomenon of fungi and roots interacting. The fungi that do this are called mycorrhizal fungi.
concerning this http://boutique.aujardin.info/boutique-TraitementsBio-Iftech.php i have read that these products doesnt match with acid soils loving plants or trees? do you use these products without problems for your maples gomero?
Hi BigJohn, I can't speak for Gomero, but here in the Northwest we have acidic soil great for maples, Rhoddies, Azaleas, blueberries etc. No problems with this beneficial fungi. I know that it doubles the root structure in one year versus a maple growing without it.
