@sun, If you think that it's aesthetically more pleasing to the eye to you then yes. It depends on how big you want it to be. Where you cut it now if you leave it, then two shoots will emerge from there next Spring, as long as you are aware of that. Sangu Kaku, eventual height is 25 feet. Is that 8mtrs. I am still so imperial measurements lol. Again, you can have these whatever height you want.
@Acerholic thank you D, I definitely like that answer. As I never did any pruning I always thought I have to think very carefully if its end height fits. I like it that you say I also have a say in it. But I definitely have to study more on this matter as I understand your words but lack of really imagining how to do it. If you have any good youtube links or recommendation on literature from a practical point of view it would be highly welcomed.
@sun, this is my book and although it is not all about training JM, it is very informative. You can read it through the Winter months and be all ready with your secateurs in hand for February. Chapter 8 is very good on maples btw. Niwaki Book The good things with books and not YouTube, you can have it next to you whilst you prune and shape, just in case you need some reassurance. Hope that's of help A.
@sun, your welcome A, if I can be rather cheeky and reccomend just one more book that IMO every collector, enthusiast should have and that's this one. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Japanese-Maples-Complete-Selection-Cultivation/dp/0881929328. I don't like to use links on this forum, as I believe that people come on here to ask for members personal experiences. We can all Google, read books and look on Wikipedia etc etc, but when you hear a person's first hand experience, it really is enlightening IMO. If you order the book I have just recommended, be prepared for your credit card to creak, LOL.
@Acerholic Good morning D we have rain for today and tomorrow after a week of over 33 degrees( up to 36) for a whole week. I will do a lot of slug- hunting... My list is coming together and I am beginning to think about where to buy. I looked up all your links, they are great. I really would like to personally chose all the trees and I would like to buy the trees that I have decided to let grow (or almost) to their mature size in sizes of about 2 meters, for example Atropurpureum, Summergold, Osakazuki, Beni Otake. I couldn`t find anything on the Dick van der Maat homepage about sizes and prices. Does he also sell bigger plants ( I mean not only if he needs to let some plants go but also in larger quantities) so that it`s possible to choose from a variety of plants of the same cultivar? I have only read about the 1 year grafts and I wouldn`t want to buy such small plants for 2 reasons. 1. I am not patient at all. My husband always tells me " When God was distributing patience to the humans you must have been to the bathroom and missed it" 2. It`s easier for me to buy a plant which has the habit that I like than to create it over the years with no pruning and training experience at all. That`s why I wanted to ask about your experience or what you heard. Where of the 3 links that you sent me do you think it is possible to walk around and choose from a lot of bigger plants. On the Esveld they seem to offer some cultivars up to 2 metres others which are also quite common only up to 1 metre, The trees that I bought this year are all from a nursery called Baumschule Nielsen in Soltau, Germany. Of course they do not have so many different cultivars than your recommended nurseries. And as a layman I cannot judge the quality of their plants although they all look quite strong and healthy to me. I wonder if most of the nurseies in the north of Germany buy their first year grafts from van der Maat anyway, do you think so? In this case their quality cannot be bad, can it? They have most of the trees that I would like to buy big. So I could buy the bigger ones there and buy the smaller ones that they do not have from somewhere else. It`s not that I can buy all of them soon, but I could make some plans.
@sun , good morning A, rain at last, it is so wonderful Sumner rain. Regarding Dick Van der maat, he opens on a Saturday for retail. He does not do mail order, his outlet was Lotta plants, but sadly is no longer associated with them. If you want to visit his nursery, you can co tact him to make an appointment, again this would be a Saturday. He does have a large variety of sizes. I understand the patience thing, mapkes can take a very long time to grow in the way you want. If the budget allows then go for it. Any of the nurseries will allow a visit to choose your trees, but appointments as in the specialist nurseries do require you to book this. In England we have Junkers in Devon, ( Karan Junker). Excellent and very knowledgeable and quality of trees is second to none. But again by appointment only. You can purchase the size you want mail order, but postage costs are obviously higher. As far as Esveld is concerned, they do mail order and are highly rated amongst any maple grower I have spoken to. Again they do various sizes. I like your list so far btw. It's going to look very colourful. Hope that's of help, remember we are all just an email away.
@sun, I just took a photo of my Red dissectum, or Acer palmatum dissectum atropurpureum. this is how it goes every Summer, it is in full sun btw. I just thought I would post it, as your dissectum I still think is 'Pink Filigree Lace'.
@Acerholic , thank you D, concerning the nurseries: with your new information I think I will mail my lists to them first (with the sizes and the habits I would prefer) and then see what they can offer. I have also looked up Junkers homepage and I would love to go there but this year I cannot as Austria requires quarantine after coming back from the UK atm and next year I do not know what happens concerning Brexit, if there are fees or other complications when I import plants from there. We will see. So I think I will work with Holland in the meantime. I am also not sure when I can buy the first maples, originally the budget was consumed, but I think I can postpone ordering the hedge with should provide the darkgreen background for them until later and buy some Acers first with the argument that they are growing much slower and are more important and I think it would probably be a good idea to keep them in their pots for at least one season to see if they like their spots. I although think I remember @ROEBUK say that he sometimes plants them with their pots during this time. Concerning my Dissectum , your atropurpureum Dissectum is really quite different from mine. So I think you are right with Pink Filigree although the pictures of Pink Filigree are also very different from each other. Sometimes they look more brownish red. Do you know someone on the forum who has one? I have now 2 lists, one for dwarfs and one for bigger ones. I have already decided on some of them , with others I haven`t made up my mind yet and hope for the forum member`s input. Shall I put the list on here or shall I start something new? I have kind of decided on the spots for Summergold, Atropurpureum, Osakazuki, Beni Otake and Ukigumo yet and I would also run this by you with fotos... Thanks for all your help, I always say to my kids: "I need to ask my maple friends this or that."
@sun, regarding pink Filigree Lace, @Luke’s Maples has one, I'm sure he will post a photo of his. Ahh Brexit, what will happen after the 31st December. Agree, buying from the UK might prove problematic as no deal looks very much on the cards IMO. Holland and France are a very good idea, at least for 2021. M @ROEBUK is very successful in keeping his in pots. He has adverse weather most of the year, so proves it can be done. As far as your list is concerned, keep this thread going, there is not so much traffic on tbe maples forum atm, but that is normal. Come September, October it will be very busy again. Do post photos of where you are thinking of placing your new trees, we are always here to help. Yes we are all friends on here, even if sometimes we may disagree about something. Lovely group of people on the maples forum from all over the world!!!! Only two lists, my wish list goes on and on and ........ Lol.
@Acerholic , Okay, so this is my list divided in what I think are the bigger ones and which are the smaller ones. Of course I cannot plant all of them. I hope the list is getting shorter and not longer. I want to let grow as much of them to their mature size, so I will not reach your inbelievable number of different cultivars. I need to limit it to an amount that leaves lawn, so that we can have a good view from the terrace to the hill in our garden. So if you think there are 2 cultivars that are very similar, please tell me. I am planning to plant the bigger ones first and later decide where to put some of the smaller ones, some in front of some bigger ones and some in pots (but my my first interest is to place the ones that will in the end be planted in the soil) First the one I have already decided on, but if you think some of them are not recommendable, please tell me: Beni Otake Summergold Atropurpureum Osakazuki Moonrise (or Autumn Moon) Ariadne Grandma Ghost Amagi shigure Ukigumo Now the ones that I am not sure: Geisha/ Geisha gone wild/ Shiraz ? (which one?) Koto no ito ? Or a smaller similar cultivar? Which one? Oridono nishiki? Sensu? One coral bark maple: Sango kaku? 20`-25`; Red Wood? Eddisbury 10`-15`? Beni Kawa? 5`-9`; Winter Flame? 5`-8`; Aka Kawa Hime? `7`-9 ; ( if 2 of them are equally recommendable I would prefer the smaller one) Kamagata? Shishigashira? On some of the pictures I have seen the shape looks not good Butterfly? or is there a better white variegated cultivar? Sister Ghost? Mr. Sun? Can anyone share experiences with this one? Katsura? ( I am afraid of late frosts, as even Orange dream was damaged by them and is later as Katsura) If you think the best Japanese maples are missing on this list please tell me your favourites. Now the smaller ones, I haven`t decided on any of them yet: Beni Yubi Gohon Mikazuki Kamagata Murasaki Kiyohime Sharps Pygmy Nicolsonii Dissectum Pink Filigree: Can anyone show me pictures of his Pink Filigree? Dissectum Baldsmith Dissectum Hana matoi Dissectum Ellen Dissectum Pink Ballerina Dissectum Flavescens Are there any really yellow-leafed Dissectum cultivars? I would love to have one Again, if you think I haven`t written down your absolute favourites, please tell me!
This is how I would like to plant the first 3, the Garnet which is now on the hill will be moved and also the other plants... All 3 of them will be seen from the terrace and the livingroom
The Spring Delight on the left side of the picture will eventually move somewhere else and put in a pot as suggested by @ROEBUK , I would like to put a different dwarf in its place, any suggestions which would also look good from afar and is in good harmony with the other 3 trees? Conditions: full sun, the house you see is in the north, the hill is on the westside of our garden, I think the hill gives a bit wind protection.
I would like to prune the atropurpureum in a shape and size like this one, do you think I can manage that when I have reading about pruning and with the help of this forum? It is good to dream of something, isn`t it?
@sun, what a list A. Let me start with my opinion on list 1 first of all. You have do e your homework really well and I cannot fault your selection there at all. Grandma ghost, Amagi Shigure and especially Ukigumo will need protection from Summer sun. The latter holds its colours well in a lot of shade. The rest in list one will handle the Summer sun well. Some protection in zone 7 is required over the Winter months for the latter three also. I find mulching best. But not up against the trunk. The list you are not sure of, IMO Shiraaz holds its pinks better than Geisha. Geisha gone wild and Shirazz are the same tree IMO. Koto ito or Koto ito komachi are very similar, both give excellent colours all season long, so it's whatever you like the look of. Oridono Nishiki, is a delicate pretty cultivar that looks lovely near a seated area in a pot IMO. It handles tbe sun very well in my zone 8b garden. I dont have Sensu, but have Acer Japonicum 'Fairy lights' which IMO is similar and gives better Autumn colours. A coral bark maple that beats Sangu Kaku has not been created yet IMO. I would recommend this to everybody. It will get tall quickly btw and may look ungainly for the first few years. But it's worth the wait. I do agree with your thoughts about Katsura for your zone, it will definatly get caught by frosts, mine does, but I put up with it as its always the first to leaf out with beautiful colours and says "Spring is here". Regarding your list for smaller maples, all six are wonderful for any garden and will do well in a fair amount of sun. But you say smaller, they are trees and will grow very big in 10 years so will of course need careful pruning to keep them under control. Mr Sun is on my list atm, then again there are not many that aren't on my list. D @LoverOfMaples has just bought one and I am very envious lol. I am positive he will post a photo. Shishi gashira is a very slow growing maple and is not everyone's cup of tea. It's a bit like Marmite, you either love it or you hate it. Butterfly IMO is a wonderful varigated leafed maple. Mine is now 30 years old and it is very hardy. We have fun with ours, creating a table top appearance, or a Bart Simpson hair cut as our grandchildren say. Sister ghost, we love and is so delicate in appearance, it does like to be kept in a fair amount of shade to stop it scorching though. Mine e only has morning sun only and no afternoon sun at all. Your list for dissectums is IMO perfect. Ellen and Pink Ballerina I don't have, but I know of them and the latter may take away the lovely effect of your Pink Filigree Lace by your pool. (If that's what it is ). Regarding yellow leafed dissectums. Is it a Summer yellow or an Autum yellow. The green Acer palmatum dissectum that I have is a lovely yellow in the Autumn. I have attached a photo for you Octobet 2019. This one is 30 years old now. Hope this is of some help A.
This is the front part of the north side of our garden. The longterm plan is to remove all the bushes that you see and after our last 2 chicken are gone remove the chicken coop as well ( we hope they have at least 2 more years) As you see there is an ornamental Cherry (prunus sargentii), which provides shadow beginning from lunchtime, if I would plant something between the cherry and the fence behind the bushes than earlier. On the last picture you can see some kind of a shed with an open door, that`s the chicken "wellness area" for sand bathing and sheltering from sun and rain, it will also be removed right to the Viburnus pragensis hedge and the Catalpa (I am sorry, I do not know the English names), so there shoul also be a good area with shade right behind the Catalpa. This area is 6 metres deep (to the fence) and we are planning to plant the same quite narrow hedge (>1 meter) along the fence. Did you mean Pink ballerina is beautiful, but you wouldn`t plant it somewhere to be seen together with my Dissectum? I will put Oridono nishiki on an extra pot list, together with Spring Delight. Our terrace is quite sunny and hot, but there are some areas in the atrium that only have morning sun, so there will be some place left for others that are better in pots... Is Koto ito the same as Koto no ito? Do you think it also looks good if I have to keep it small (2 metres)?And it is for sun, is it? I was planning to plant the Beni otake and Moonrise right at the right side of the first picture next to the wood shed as it is quite sunny there and maybe Butterfly and Ariadne next to them, as they also seem to take a lot of sun. I think I will take Shishi from my list, as I only love some close up pictures, but rarely the habit. I love the picture of your dissectum in fall, I think it will be good to plant some green Acers anyway as it will be too wildly coloured otherwise. But I was also looking for Dissectums with yellow summer foliage, but I haven`t found any, only some that were light green. Are there any at all? I will update my lists...pot list , sun list, shadier list,...
@sun, No I would not place Ballerina near your Pink Filigree Lace it would reduce the beautiful effect of both IMO. Koto no ito and koto ito komachi are very similar indeed, either are fine in some sun, but I would not say full sun. Your plans for Beni Otaki and Moonrise will look wonderful in that position, bothnwill compliment each other well all Summer. I love the greens, there are so many shades and varieties and tbh they tend to give the best Autumn colours. As far as yellow dissectums are concerned, it is the Autumn that you have to wait for these colours. There are the light greens, but no yellows. That's where the Shirasawanum's and palmates come in !!! Regarding your post about Atropurpureum shaping, yes of course you will be able to create the shape you want. You will be surprised at how quickly you become accomplished in the art of pruning. Your new book will guide you. Always refer to it if in doubt, before making the cut. You have an exciting project that I hope you will share with photos on the forum. Looking forward to seeing it materialise next year. Thanks for your comment on my green dissectum A.
@sun, just seen your post about the positioning of Atropurpureum, Summer gold and Osakasuki. That is going to look stunning IMO. The Osakasuki will glow in the Autumn against the dark green background. The slope of your garden will also bring added interest to your trees. Great planning A.
There are 2 more ugly garden areas that have to be redecorated, I will send fotos of them soon. I just realized that I didn`t have Aconitifolium on my list. Do you think that is a mistake? One of the remaining areas might be a good spot for it, but I wouldn´t want it to grow much much than 4 metres. I know you told me that I can prune any tree to which size and shape I want. But is it possible to put a tree on a certain track for a smaller size by pruning it a certain way when he is quite young so that even if you stop pruning it later it will not grow taller than you want it to? I hope that was understandable and not a silly question...?
@sun, The Aconitifolium is a fast grower, but can be kept in shape if it is pruned early on in it's life. If allowed to grow away and then you want to control it's shape and size you will be left with a lot of trunk and no lovely branching. So the trick with Aconitifolium is to know exactly the height you want it to grow and have a plan of action every February / March with your pruning. The leaves are large, but don't allow this to put you off this wonderful cultivar. It will reward you many times over and especially in the Autumn. As far as not pruning it after it gets to the desired height, that will not stop it producing more branching and upward growth. I'm afraid if you don't want to prune, then it will grow to its natural height. Sadly a lot of us do not have the acres of land to be able to do this, so the pruning tools have to be used. Hope that's clear A !!?
@Acerholic, yes D, crystalclear :))) So if I buy the Atropurpureum and the Aconitifolium and the Beni Otake at a size of about 2 metres and they have quite the habit that I would like: the atropurpureum like the foto I posted and the aconitifolium similar and the Beni Otake vase shaped and as compact as possible will that be to late to start pruning them for a certain height? Do I have to buy smaller sizes to begin earlier with their regular "treatment" Where I bought the this year`s acers they prune regularly once a year in summer (I do not know about winter pruning) but they do it to keep them compact and give them good pleasant proportions, and not to restrict their heights. This is the south side of our rear garden on the left of the hill. I consider planting the aconitifolium there. The hut will probably be replaced sometime in the future, in front of it we put a grid with ivy of about 2,3 metres. So it would be nice if the Aconitifolium would look a bit over it, but it shouldn`t shadow the area where the atropurpureum, Summergold and Osakazuki are planned or take the sun away for the stipa grass.
@sun, sorry for the delay in replying A, IMO 2mtrs is the limit as far as starting to shape. My rule of thumb is the earlier the better to start shaping a tree. Although I do not touch mine under 3 years old. On the other side of the argument, is that a larger tree with a good strong root ball will inevitably have a better chance of survival. The little ones do have a habit of dying. (Under 3ltrs) So it's a compromise A. I carry out tidying pruning in July and only 20 % maximum removed. The major prune shape ready for the season is in February. Your planning is exemplary, too many people go to a garden centre, see a maple and bring it home without thinking where it's going to go. Oh yes I forgot, that's me !!!! Hope that's of help.
@Acerholic , D, I forgot to write I would like to plant the Aconitifolium right behind the hut right next to the table tennis table (which wouldn`t be there anymore). On the right side of the first foto there is the rest of the compost soil that was delivered and a lot of weed,and one hedge plant which is only there temporarely. I would also plant this area, but only with plants that stay below the wood barrier of the hill. Both spots are quite sunny. the spot for the Aconitifolium is a bit shadowed from the hut in the morning.
@sun, an Aconitifolium filling out that corner will look amazing, I can see why you want to keep the height limited. The Aconitifolium can handle a lot more in the way of sun or shade than the delicate varieties, so do not worry too much about the placing.
