How are your reds doing at this time of the year?

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Gomero, Sep 8, 2008.

  1. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Red Japanese maples color performance (i.e.: amount of greening out) depends on cultivar type; for a given cultivar on exposure and for a given cultivar and a given exposure on local weather conditions (it has been said many times that 'full sun' in Belfast is not the same as full sun in Roma).

    Having said that, it would be interesting to share experiences on which cultivars do stay red throughout the season in your local conditions. So today I went out and inspected my red cultivars.

    I found only 5 top rated 10/10: trees with all leaves still red, a good strong red, including those shaded by the others:
    - 'Margaret Bee': 4 years in the ground with dappled shade all day.
    - 'Burgundy Lace': 12 years in the ground with morning sun and afternoon shade
    - 'Red Filigree Lace': 2 years in pot, 3 hours morning sun and then shade. The only dissectum to make it to the top.
    - 'Fireglow' 4 years in the ground with dappled shade and 3-4 hours of direct sun.
    - 'Sylvie' ten years in the ground in heavy shade.

    Rated 8/10, with mostly red leaves but with a little greening out: 'Sharon', 'Koba shojo', 'Pung Kil', 'Trompenburg' and 'Teriba'

    All others had a failed score: too much greening out or faded colors. Some significant disappointments included 'Inaba shidare', 'Enkan' and 'Tamukeyama'

    What are your experiences?

    Gomero
     
  2. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    Mine are all potted, all in full sun (and wind) my best red is 'Moonfire'.

    I'm growing a 'Sumi nagashi' seedling, mostly red and still looking fresh.
     
  3. kaspian

    kaspian Active Member 10 Years

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    Gomero, using your scale, my Yezo Nishiki is about a 7. I'm impressed, because it is planted in a spot where it gets only a very little filtered morning sun, but bright indirect (northern) light all day.

    Purple Ghost is more like an 8 or 9.
     
  4. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    we just finished today 8 straight days of 95-103F which is quite hot here and I wud
    say my Wetumpka Red is a 10 on your scale, Gomero, all leaves fully red with no
    burn and it is not shaded. Shaina is 9-10, Aratama 9, Trompenburg 7-8 and also a
    Red Fili Lace 7-8, Skeeters Broom 10. But my Purple Ghost and another Red Fili Lace
    have bronzed and my Oregon Sunset is fried with new red leaves coming out. I love
    Wetumpka Red's tenacity and recommend it to everyone.
     
  5. tjcher

    tjcher Active Member

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    I would judge mine as follows:
    Bloodgood: In the ground 2 years, morning sun, afternoon shade, 9.
    Emperor 1: In a pot 2 years, full sun, 10.
    Inaba Shidare: In a pot 2 years, was in morning sun, afternoon shade but started turning green, so I moved the pot to full sun and all new growth since the move in late June has been deep red and stayed that way. Old growth: 6 New Growth, 10.
    Orangeola: In the ground 1 year, full sun, red, orange, green..... not sure how to judge this one....
    Tom
     
  6. spookiejenkins

    spookiejenkins Active Member

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    Neat question, Gomero... Thanks for asking.

    All of my trees are in pots and all reds get full sun from 1/2 to 3/4 of every day.

    We had tropical storm Hanna blow thru here and whip things up for us, so there is a lot of wind damage/burn at the moment.

    As for the best of my reds:
    Ebony - laceleaf - 4 yrs old - a little crisp from wind, but very nice brick red color.
    Lionheart - laceleaf - 2-3 yrs old - no crisping leaves and deep purple red! PERFECT!
    Crimson Queen - 6-7 years old - like lionheart - PERFECT - no fading, still lush.
    Beni otake - strapleaf - tied with Red Spider for best of the linerailobum - minimal crispiness and lots of deep red color!
    Orangeola - 5 yrs - if we are calling it a red :) - PERFECT and gorgeous as always - a fave. This one can do no wrong for me.

    In the middle of the bunch:
    Fireglow - 6-7 yrs - no tip burn whatsoever, but color has bronzed a bit. Still nice.
    Red Dragon - 5 yrs - crispy but still fighting red!
    Margaret Bee - 2-3 yrs - still deep purple - one of my faves - minimal tip burn.

    The worst of the worst:
    Garnet - 5 yrs - this is supposed to be red? completely green - new growth red tho.
    Tamukeyama - 6 yrs - boring. Crisp and faded and not doing a thing.
    Attraction - 6-7 yrs - faded into the background - moderate tip burn.
    Purple Ghost - 2 yrs - faded - minimal tip burn - no sign of reticulation
    Moonfire - 2-4 yrs - bronze city - one looks deep fried and other has no burn at all. ?
    Stella Rosa - 2 yrs - crisp and bronze - like Tamukeyama - not growing an inch!
    Red Cloud - 2 yrs - love them but both are crispy critters - one is completely green.
    Villa Taranto - Im gonna have to move this one, I think. The worst leaf burn of all. I can hardly remember what it is supposed to look like!
     
  7. alex66

    alex66 Rising Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    this year "0" zero jm remain purpreum/red
    i have:Fire glow full sun;Sharon partial shade;Stella rossa partial shade;Villa taranto shade;Ginshi partial shade ;Lion heart shade; shirasawanum Yasmine partial shade.only Oriental mystery, return red last week only for new leaves...
    high hot temp.&dry air....the cause,for me
     
  8. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    @Katsura, Mike are the plants you ranked potted/planted? Pic of 'Wetumpka red'?

    @Spook, what the heck! Here 'Orangeola', 'Beni otake', and 'Purple ghost' are toast.

    @Tj, I'd like to see a pic of your 'Emperor I'



    Wow I feel inept. The closest to a natural 10 that I'm growing would be 'Hogyoku'. 'Aratama' looks perfect but it's all new growth.
     
  9. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    Gil,
    Most of my maples are in pots. Wetumpka is potted. I need to learn to use
    a digital camera and then learn how to load the pics here but Wetumpka is
    a broad leaved palmate.
    When I did my post last evening to Gomero's great topic question, it was
    dark out here so this morning I looked around my yard and noticed that my
    Margaret Bee is not holding its color as well as plants mentioned by others
    here on this topic and I see a Bloodgood in FULL ALL DAY sun that I wud
    rank a 10 on Gomero's scale yet all 3 of my Fireglows are faded or crisp etc.
    My Moonfire which is a 10X10' tree in a 1/2 wine barrel always stays red
    and is next to the Bloodgood I just described and I wud say the Moonfire
    is a 9, yet my big Red Emperor (also potted) is a 6-7 and other big Bloodgoods
    I have both in pots and in the ground have bronzed yet the 1 in FULL SUN ALL
    DAY is pure red. Go figure. As I like to say these plants have not the books.
    Best-
    Mike
     
  10. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I trust people will learn with this thread how these trees are, let's say, unpredictable in their behavior and how daring is to extrapolate from one garden to another. It may also confirm the suspicion some have that for a given popular cultivar, there are a number of variants being traded not all having the same characteristics.

    This could also be kept as reference for people who might want to choose which red to plant in a given spot.

    Mike, is your Margaret Bee in full sun?

    Orangeola is a special case since it is supposed to have color changes during the season, so I did not rate it.

    Gomero
     
  11. spookiejenkins

    spookiejenkins Active Member

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    WOW back atcha Gil - my poor Hogyoku looks like poo. My 'Orangeola' just likes me I guess; its always a vision of perfection. I figured it was like that for everyone - just an "easy" cultivar. 'Seiryu' is another one I can't mess up. It is always happy.

    This is really interesting to me... We will all have to revisit these posts next year at this time. I am very curious to know if the same trees will look as they do this season. My guess is that they will all be different.

    Neat. Thanks again Gomero for the provocative query.
     
  12. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    Gomero,
    Good topic. Thanks.
    I just went out and looked closely at my Margaret Bee which is in a ceramic pot in
    full all day sun (til 6 PM or so). The tree is 6'x4' and does hold its color well but
    after 8-9 days of 95-103F we just had, I notice the leaves have kept their red margins but the center of the leaves have turned yellowish-orangish-brownish
    which I've always thought was a form of bronzing as the sugars deplete in high
    temps.
    Mike
     
  13. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    Thanks for follow-up guys.

    Yes, Gomero good thread and also good point about unpredictability.

    So many variables at play. Hot root zone is my scapegoat this year. Last year I blamed a few missed waterings, this year i was vigilant on that front. I think lower, wider pots are probably cooler than taller pots and I'm going to test out that hypothesis with any re-potting i do this fall.
     
  14. paxi

    paxi Active Member

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    I just have little 1-2 year grafts.

    Tamukeyama - full sun, no green but a fair amount of leaf tip burn

    Crimson queen & red dragon - partial shade - both turned a combination of red/green in june or july.
     
  15. dawgie

    dawgie Active Member 10 Years

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    Garnet - 2, perhaps the prettiest shade of rosy red in spring but quickly changes to a boring green.
    Crimson Queen - 7, my second best dissectum at retaining its red color
    Red Dragon - 9, retains its color great but doesn't handle the sun and heat that well
    Villa Taranto - 5, keeps its red longer than Garnet but less than my other reds
    Emperor - 10, mine is still totally red, actually purple, however I would prefer brighter red
    Beni otake - 7, good color retention growing in shade; with more sun it would probably stay red all summer
    Beni ubi gohan - 8, brightest cherry red of my JMs and good retention
    Shin deshojo - 3, doesn't stay red very long, but it's worth it for the intense color
    Bloodgood seedling - 8, keeps its color very well but leaves pretty crispy about now
     
  16. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    For me, the absolute hands-down champ for holding red color is A.p. 'Cindy'. This plant only gets an hour of sun per day, yet remains almost completely red! Definitely a 10!


    Others:

    Yezo nishiki - 8
    Suminagashi - 7
    Crimson Queen - 6
    Fireglow - 5
    Bloodgood - 5
    Beni otake - 4
    Aekan Ies - 4
    Shaina - 3 (went green)
    Beni ubi gohan - 3 (got really crispy!)
    Villa taranto - too new
    Shojo nomura - too new

    I have a number of others that are just too new to comment on or are still tiny grafts..
     
  17. silver_creek

    silver_creek Active Member

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    Interesting topic. We don't have all that many reds compared to most of you. but those we have -
    Bloodgood, full sun, 15 years in ground-10
    Inazuma, full sun 15 years in ground-7
    Suminigashi, 3/4 sun, 15 years in ground- 8
    Atrolineare, 3/4 sun, 12 years in ground- 7
    Shaina, full sun, 3 years in ground- 9
    Garnet, full sun, 12 years in ground-8.

    Having rated them for how much red they retain, I have to put in my subjective opinion- Bloodgood is boring! I actually prefer the reds that change constantly. My favorite red is Inazuma, with its deep spring purple red which slowly changes to red flushed green, then in fall to the most spectacular florescent crimson. Suminigashi runs a close second. When our Garnet was in shade, it did go completely green in summer, and was not great for fall tones, but now that we moved it to sun, it is spectacular. And tho I don't have one (yet) I love the way Aratama has two toned leave in summer if in some shade. Of course, living in the PNW, we don't have much sunburn issues unless we get a particularly hot spring day when the new growth is tender (as happened to my Shigarami this year).
     
  18. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Guys, remember that (at least) Villa Taranto and Shin deshojo aren't meant to stay red. VT is interesting because it's red on the outside, with green on the inside, SD breaks leaf a violent red but then fades to medium green for summer.

    Here it was always Okagami that was best, but it seems to be dying. Current best for full red is Trompenburg. But I like reds that show some green, I find them prettier.

    -E
     
  19. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Of course, ........me too. But that is a different question and thread ;o))

    Gomero
     
  20. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I love the information in this thread, thanks for starting it, Gomero.

    How about a year later update? Did everybody pretty much see the same thing this year or were there any surprises?

    BTW, I gave a 'Cindy' to my neighbor Cindy as a present that got planted where I saw it all year. It was a dark plum every time I looked. Growing conditions PNW morning light only.

    Aratama stayed red from me until I burned the heck out of it. I almost lost the tree. After being put in partial shade and nursed back to health it displayed the two toned red with green center leaves you would expect.

    Oshio beni was not a brilliant red until the fall when it briefly blazed. But it never greened and it gave me a consistent red not purple color - hard to explain the hue, maybe an undertone of brown vs the purple or orange we see in others. It did have a month of the dark "brick red" I've seen cited - that occurred (as I recall) after Spring and before height of Summer. Growing conditions: PNW filtered light. Almost no direct sun at all. So I'm quite pleased with it.

    Purple Ghost - purpled, go figure.

    Pixie - bright, bright red, then purpled up quite a bit late, late summer. Fall color brilliant red.

    Shaina - bought late in the year, still showing a good strong red with purple tones. Fall color brilliant red.

    My mystery red originally sold to me as a Bonfire (which it is most definitely not) probably had the strongest red in my yard but it did have purple overtones.

    This fall I planted a Beni otake, an Ijima sunago, a Brandt's Dwarf, a Kasagiyama, and a Red Dragon. I'll chime it next year with how they performed. Oh, and I'm looking for a candidate for a shady location that will hold a strong red, preferably bright, preferably not with purple tones, orange tones acceptable. What do people think about 'Crimson Carole'? I'm also considering Margaret Bee, Wetumpka Red, and maybe Moonfire. Gomero, I didn't find information on 'Sylvie', can you tell me more about this one?
     
  21. alex66

    alex66 Rising Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    this autumn i have the max red leaves!!!one fantastic autumn!!jm summer gold ,rufinerve hatsuyki,rubrum octobr glory,shirasawanum jasmine,japonicum acunitifolium,and another good number..
    2009 spring many rain ;this year no fertilize,no prune,autumn temp. high in central day, low in the night,summer is "start" in july
    a few number of day with temp.around max38 °,no 42° for two week like 2008 summer.
     
  22. JohanAbrandt

    JohanAbrandt Active Member

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    Well, the best autumn red in my garden is Osakazuki. My Bloodgood is the same dull dark-red/brown as the rest of the year, dependable, but nothing special. Trompenburg is really nice last week before the leaves drop, but nothing special before that.
     
  23. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    'Beni otake' was my red standout. I have 3 potted 'Osakazuki' plants grown in less that full sun have brighter, better preserved leaves.
     

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