Help! Very long grape vine; needs pruning advice.

Discussion in 'Grapes and Grape Vines' started by plantenthusiast, Apr 11, 2008.

  1. plantenthusiast

    plantenthusiast Active Member

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    I have a red grape, I am unsure of the variety, but it is established at a house that we moved into last summer. (I recently moved to the East Coast). The grape vine produced a ton of (ripe) fruit last year, and it is extremely long (20ft?); it has been trained along the side of the house, and then up around the top of the front veranda.

    I would like to keep the vine for obvious ornamental purposes, but would also certainly like for it to keep producing fruit. I am aware that grapes fruit on previous years' wood, but am unsure of how to go about pruning it so that it will stay long, and not bushy and tangled (to reach the veranda), yet still have a constant supply of 1 yr old wood, to fruit from.

    The four arm-kniffen system is unsuitable for this subject (for the purposes that I am trying to achieve), as it requires the 'arms' be be too short.

    Any advice?

    -Plantenthusiast
     
  2. Ralph Walton

    Ralph Walton Active Member 10 Years

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    Grapes fruit on shoots that arise from last year's growth. In other words, last year's wood will have buds that will begin to swell any time now, and new shoots will grow from these buds. The fruit will be on these new shoots, not directly on last year's wood.

    So, where you want fruit to form, prune last year's shoots to leave 2 - 3 buds. You don't need very many of these shoots, maybe a dozen or so (depending on your history of fruit production. Allow for 2-4 clusters per shoot.) Shoots that have been exposed to the sun will tend to be more fruitful (keep that in mind for next year). Prune everything else close to the main trunk. If you want vegetation elsewhere on the trunk, leave some pruned shoots with buds but be prepared to snip off any flower clusters (these may also appear later in the season). You can call this the "one armed veranda system".

    A neighbor has such a plant that has a permanent trunk over 40 ft. long, and it passes thru a small lean-to greenhouse in the middle. The fruit inside the greenhouse ripens a couple of weeks earlier than that on the outside.

    Ralph
     
  3. plantenthusiast

    plantenthusiast Active Member

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    Just a note: If anyone else has other suggestions that they would like to add, please do! I am always open to new ideas and am interested in hearing the various techniques that have worked for you in your grape pruning endeavors.

    Ralph,

    Thank you for the advice, I will give the 'one-armed veranda system' a try! I do know what you mean about the fruits being borne from the shoots (via buds) of the previous years' wood. But I am also wondering, will the main (super long) 'trunk' continue to produce new buds? The reason I ask is that I imagine the side shoots to be getting a little longer each year (as I need buds from the previous year's wood, each season) you see what I mean? I went out and clipped a few things here and there today, to have a look at it, and it has lots of side branches that run along with the main trunk, but does not seem to produce a whole lot of buds directly on the trunk itself. And instead of being an attractive long vine, it would turn into some monstrous mass of spurs!

    On a funny note, I was pruning near the Bell box on the side of the house and gave myself a fright when I discovered a cut wire dangling about! Thankfully, I had not cut it, it had simply been left there as it was by the electrician who'd installed it.

    I just love the story about the neighbors vine winding through the greenhouse; what a riot! Well, it certainly gives me hope that perhaps my method is not as unorthodox as I'd previously thought.

    Thanks again,

    -Plantenthusiast
     
  4. Ralph Walton

    Ralph Walton Active Member 10 Years

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    The "monstrous mass of spurs" is a legitimate concern. As long as there are "easy" buds available, the vine will keep adding shoots there. There are latent buds that can be forced, but usually by some drastic measures like cutting off the monstrous mass. Various strategies are used to get by this situation, one of the easiest is to train a lower shoot to remain parallel to the main trunk for a couple of seasons and then prune off the original trunk and make this newer shoot into a new main trunk. If the vine doesn't cooperate with a suitable shoot, do a bud graft wherever you like.

    Ralph
     
  5. plantenthusiast

    plantenthusiast Active Member

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    Ralph,

    Thank you so much! That is very helpful, and I will certainly ponder my options.

    You give 'grape' advice!

    Happy growing,

    -Plantenthusiast
     
  6. dave130

    dave130 Member

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    how can you tell last years wood??
    Dave
     
  7. Ralph Walton

    Ralph Walton Active Member 10 Years

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    Start at a shoot end (the growing tip) and work your way back. At some point it will be growing out of a larger branch (or a trunk or cordon) that will have an obviously different and coarser appearance. The shoot you have been following back will be the most recent growth (last year's if your vine is still dormant).

    Interesting question as the difference is obvious, even unconscious to me and you've forced me to wonder what specifically makes it so. I think it's the surface texture more than anything else: smooth for fresh wood and rougher as it ages. Translucent green near the growing tip becoming tan or gold as the wood matures.

    Ralph
     

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