Identification: Help identifying cultivar

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Cattwooduk, May 25, 2022.

  1. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    So a few years ago I did some work for someone and mentioned I liked the Acer in the garden (in spite of its treatment). The lady said her son had bought it years ago and it was in the wrong place, so she had basically been butchering it into a round shape every couple of years so it was a bit of a mess. Healthy, but not natural.
    In short she said if I'd like it I could have it if I removed it... Score!

    As I had planned on using it for bonsai material I did some drastic trunk chops etc. It's far from perfect and needs ground layering but it's a long project. (AlainK I'll be requesting help!)

    Anyway, it leafs out as in the first picture, similar to Katsura I thought.
    It is now a very pale yellow with fine orange/red margin. The more shaded leaves inside have mostly gone a lime sort of greeny yellow.

    It's held the same colour almost exactly as my Jordan. New growth is on red stems as with Jordan.
    My Summer's Gold has larger leaves, although this bonsai material is definitely root bound as it's been in this box for 3-4 years I think, so this could be restricting leaf size.
    Other thought was possibly Katsura?
     

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  2. D97x7

    D97x7 Contributor 10 Years

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    It looks like an Orange Dream to me, but I'm no expert.
    Here's mine at the moment
    IMG_20220525_181620.jpg
     
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  3. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    That's a good shout. I hadn't considered that actually because my orange dream is completely green at the moment, but it's in full shade! The one in the box is pretty much full sun all day now, having been only given a few hours of direct sun for the last few years since collection.
    I can't remember what colour it was last autumn, and apparently I didn't take a picture.
     
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  4. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    I would go for Orange Dream also. It is so different in varying light conditions. But I think N @D97x7 has called it right.
     
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  5. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    Well now I'm wondering if I should move the other one I have into more sunlight, if not fill sun at least morning or evening. It looks a lot better than in full shade!

    The question then would be what to put in it's place in full shade...
     
  6. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Orange Dream doesn't do well in full afternoon Summer sun. It likes good morning sun and afternoon shade. So your thoughts on morning is better than late Summer evening sun IMO.
     
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  7. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    At the moment there is a whole lot of overgrowth and a large dead Forsythia on the east side of it which blocks a lot of morning sun. If I clear all that it may give it enough extra light to bring out some more yellow. I'll try that before buying something else to put in its place
     
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  8. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Sounds like an excellent plan!!
     
  9. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    You were meant to list off some good cultivars for full shade, then in turn I could feign reluctance to look them up, and pretend as if I don't want to buy more trees and blame you for it.
     
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  10. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    I would hate for you to have the same problem as me. Too many trees for far to little space. But if you want a recommendation for full shade that is yellow and bright. Then Jordan is a very good candidate.
     
  11. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    Does it stay yellow in shade then?
    I have one already which is currently getting morning sun and afternoon shade, to mimic the position I already know it will be planted out. It's got really nice 'outer' colours and inside a bit more lime/yellow. Plan is to plant it next to a Pung Kil which I also have so they can really contrast each other in leaf shape and colour.. They're both just growing on in pots at the moment until I have time to clear the position and build the sleeper bed for them.
     
  12. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Yes it does hang on to the yellows far better in a lot of shade and it does not fry. I like the idea of it being next to Pung kil, the contrast in colour and leaf shape should look amazing. So that's a posting photo I will look forward to from you when you get the location sorted.
     
  13. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    Well putting the Jordan in shade is a possibility then, but then I'll need a new buddy to go with the Pung Kil!

    I do have a Moonrise which is also currently just growing on in a nursery pot until I find somewhere to put it. That could go just well with Pung Kil I think, it just won't be quite such a striking contrast in colour. From what I've read Moonrise should be fine with direct sun until 1pm as well, then shade onwards.

    If I move the orange dream I will wait until spring and see how good the autumn colours this year with the amount of shade it's in.
     
  14. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    There is always planning for next year and tbh it never ends Lol. One of the good things about pots, is that you can arrange and change your mind. Luke @Luke’s Maples does this often, to great effect.
    But give each one time in a particular position, I find that often your first choice is often the best.
     
  15. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    I think it's 'Orange Dream'. If you can put it where it gets 1-2 hours of sun in the morning, in the evening, or both, I think it's the best environment for it.

    Bonsai ? Most "traditionalists" would tell you that the two branches, like a slingshot, is a complete no-no, but "beauty is in the eye of those who find it beautiful" (approx. quote). From what I can see of the main limbs, it will need to be twice as tall if you want to make it a bonsai, with the branches, and then the twigs getting thinner. Let grow and chop. Or clip and grow, its works both ways ^^

    "Orthodoxy" is perhaps not the best way for someone to express what they have in mind : as long as you like it, as your friends like it, it's a "good" bonsaï ;°)

    I think in a few years' time it can become a beautiful bonsaï.

    PS : I might post a couple of virtuals later, or tomorrow, or next week...
     
  16. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    This is where the orange dream currently is, showing a pretty lime green colour.
    To the left is east and behind it behind the bushes south, so if I clear some of the dead stuff to the left (which has always been the plan eventually anyway) then it'll get a bit more early light. As the sun goes round it gets maybe an hour of late evening sun again before dropping behind houses.

    It looks a little more yellow in the photo.
     

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  17. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    The green on an Orange Dream means too little sun. So moving it to get a few hours of early morning sunshine is the right move.
     
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  18. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    I know it's faults and there are a few! I posted this one on Bonsainut a few years ago when I first collected it.
    The slingshot look is an issue, it could be helped a bit by changing the planting angle so the main trunk is slightly to the left, and the 2 secondary trunks will be a smaller side canopy.
    Next issue is a huge wound where I took out a dead straight vertical trunk, and it hasn't healed over very well at all. I think I need to take a dremel to the wood and make it concave, then re-cut the edge to stimulate it to hopefully callous over again. I think there will always be a bulge there though, and not the easiest place to hide it.
    Other major fault is the inverse taper where the trunk splits. This is the bit I was planning on asking for advice with - I plan on ring barking it at the widest point below the split and then planting it into the ground in July. I think when it's at the right level in the ground I back-fill with a mixture of sphagnum moss, compost and bonsai soil. Then cover the ground with some weed supressing membrane and then some bark chippings on top? I think that should keep the area to be rooted moist and warm. Is that right, or will it just rot? I have air layered quite a lot of trees successfully now and am pretty confident with it, so I'm assuming ground layering is basically the same principle!

    Am I missing anything else I should do?
     
  19. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    Before I move it I'll try and clear a lot of the overgrowth to the side and see if it helps bring in a little more light. If it doesn't get any change in colour by July I will consider moving it either in September or next Spring.
     
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  20. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    I'm not a fan of "Dremel" for deciduous trees, to me it should be reserved to some conifers that often have dead wood, but not on maples.

    But please yourself, I may have an archaic conception of what a "maple bonsai" looks like... ;0)
     
  21. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    It's not so much to do carving to mimic dead wood. It's more to just concave the would enough so that when it heals over, hopefully it won't have a massive bulge there.
     
  22. 0soyoung

    0soyoung Rising Contributor

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    I use my Dremel to 'clean off' largish, unsightly stubs that I've made on trees that I am growing to be bonsai, including maples, just as I think you are intending, @Cattwooduk.

    Cutting away live wood is considerably harder than dead wood. I've found that structured tooth tungsten carbide cutters work nicely on both. These inexpensive bits do tend to get gummed up with live wood, but are easily cleaned by a mild butane torch flame (like making creme brulee!) .
     
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  23. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    Yeah I was thinking of using the Dremel to concave the dead wood, then use the usual cutters to re-cut a clean edge to hopefully re-grow the callous.
     
  24. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    I monitored it a bit this afternoon and actually realised it gets direct sun from about 4-8pm. So plenty of bright light but hopefully not peak heat. Not sure why it's so green!
     
  25. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    +1 for Orange Dream. Don't think it's Jordan.

    Dremel!! You bonsai guys are nuts!! :):)

    Thanks for the reminder, I have to dremel to clean up a piece of a cabinet prior to regluing. After lunch, always assuming the dremel has some charge. (Also have to sharpen the chain saw, but maybe not today. Dremels are such an essential tool).

    I wonder if a bit of careful dremeling would be a good substitute for a concave pruner, to get dead wood out of a graft, when you don't have the right size. I only have one of these pruners, and I often find it too large.
     

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