Have we ever been this close to realizing our own extinction?

Discussion in 'Conversations Forum' started by burton420, Jan 4, 2008.

  1. earthy smells

    earthy smells Member

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    I understand that. I understand people don't agree with it. I just assume those people are aware I'm aware sometimes, and treat it as accepted fact. So I understand what you're sayin, just overlook my statements because they weren't meant for ya : )
     
  2. piyush

    piyush Member

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    Yes definitely we have realized that we are ruining our home planet but I don't think the human beings are closer to extinction.
    Now the time has come where we have to take a look upon our action and their ill effects on the planet so that we could make the things happen little slower so that our future generations will affect a little.
     
  3. Liz

    Liz Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Thought occured to me, I wonder how old the contributors are to this discussion. Am I that ancient that I remember normal winter, spring , summer and autumns and what we have now is quiet "normal" to many of you? I don't think it is normal and quiet frankly it scares me. I certainly am not a celebrity and not that well off either. Probably rich in my piece of land but that is about it. The warming may not have started out by "man made" but I reckon we are doing a good job in accelerating it. Time for head out of sand and that includes the millions that don't believe something is happening as well as the billions who can feel something but are not privy to information and are just struggling to survive.

    Liz
     
  4. earthy smells

    earthy smells Member

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    Liz I'm 22, I've noticed the winters change drastically over the last 15 years in the same location. We used to get snow, now we're lucky if we get it

    Of course, that can't be blamed on climate change, just from that observation...
     
  5. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Esteemed Contributor UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    33. I recall at least a few Halloweens where it was almost blizzard conditions when trick-or-treating. I don't think anything like that has occurred for decades since. There have also been a number of recent December holidays with only the barest of snow (or none at all) - and I always recall being able to make snow forts with my cousins as a kid from the massive snowdrifts we had at the time.

    This is all pretty anecdotal, though - not to discount it entirely, but it certainly isn't proof of anything.
     
  6. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    I just read this morning that the majority of the temperature increase in the last 100 years happened before 1920, not after cars and jet planes became part of our every day lives. In Arkansas we are having absolutely normal winters and our summers are actually cooler than normal. I do not doubt global warming. I just wonder if we are making "observations" that fit our predetermined beliefs.
     
  7. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Esteemed Contributor UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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  8. Anne58

    Anne58 Active Member

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    Figured I'd jump in here . . .

    I'm 49 and I definitely remember seasons that were much different from what they are now. As mentioned earlier, I can remember when we actually had snow in the Vancouver area, enough to built proper snowmen that lasted quite a while. None of this snow today then rain tomorrow and wash it away.

    I also remember summers being much cooler and wetter than they have been in recent years. I can recall when we started getting the long stretches of sunny weather how cranky people were becoming because we were use to having a few warm sunny days followed by a day or two of rain to cool the place off and give people a chance to get a good night's sleep. In fact, it use to be more like the summer we had in '07 that everyone has complained about so much!

    Anne
     
  9. Liz

    Liz Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Well I will admit to nearly 60. What I am noticing is a shift of seasons. It appears here to be out of wack by about a month. Yes we have had drought but there has been those before. We used to have a saying that vegetables were safe to plant after the date of the Melbourne cup. (ist Tuesday in Nov) These days I can put tomatoes, for eg, out into the garden about a month earlier. I saw my first shoot of jonquil yesterday and it is not even autumn yet. Can I say, I have really enjoyed the flow of discussion and all the interesting material that has been supplied

    Enjoy your spring up there when it arrives
    Liz
     
  10. bedixon

    bedixon Active Member

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    I'm 50. Whether or not we are causing the planet to heat up from our actions, we are causing devastation nonetheless. The rainforest is disappearing not from global warming but from corporate greed for oil and beef. Earthy smells gave us an impressive list of just how important the rainforests are; we humans are directly responsible for this irretrievable and tragic loss of flora and fauna. We can argue till doomsday over whether the loss of rainforest contributes the global warming or not. In the meantime indigenous peoples have lost their homes and way of life so that we can drive our cars and eat at McDonalds. There are several reasons why we should be finding ways to use less, and global warming is only one of them. Our society gets lazier and greedier as much of the world around us get poorer and needier - we are all one world, we are all connected and we are out of balance.
     
  11. earthy smells

    earthy smells Member

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    All of you 'older' people -

    Have you always been concerned with the env. or just lately?

    My 60 something year old parents are just being turned on to the environment, its destruction, and its worth, etc. They really had no idea/no concern for the most part until I came along and nagged em daily about it!
     
  12. Liz

    Liz Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I can honestyl say I have always been environmentaly concerned. This may be because of living in the country and closer to the earth so to speak. I have been into recycling for example for as long as I can remember. When living in the suburbs I would collect autumn leaves from the elderly living around me so they could not burn them in the gutters. This was the norm every autumn. I had great compost. The day Incinerators were banned was wonderful. I have always tried to do with out poisons in the garden and instead used natural methods of control.

    Having said that I was not as aware of the global consequences untill the ozone furor errupted down here then I really began to take notice of things.

    Liz
     
  13. 1950Greg

    1950Greg Active Member

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    My understanding of global warming is that it causes extremes in weather conditions not that the weather is really warming per say. On the question of have I been concerned with the enviromentalist all along. Growing up in the sixties in Vancouver, I would have to say yes and as a gardener I am aware of the conection we all should have with the living world around us. Also as gardeners we provide an example to those who take the time to stop and look with a living example of our commitment.
     
  14. bedixon

    bedixon Active Member

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    Between 20 - 30 years ago global warming was in the news... but there were always counteracting reports to dissipate concern. I have a distinct memory of feeling relieved to hear a report that we needn't be worried, new reports showed that global warming wasn't a threat... and I believed it. How naive I feel today when I remember that. I then learned about the Organized disinformation fed to us through the media to keep us dumbed down and confused about what's really going on. It happened with tobacco and it's happening now with climate change.
     
  15. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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  16. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Doesn't mean much. The graphs are all like a zig-zag, up-down-up-down but the overall trend is steadily up.

    One of the early, and still held, predictions of global warming was for increased short-term variability and more extremes, and that seems to be holding true there too.
     
  17. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Allow me to preface this with a note that I am not anti-global warming. I do read a great deal of the published material on this subject including both sides of the discussion. I want to hear all sides of the situation and listen to what scientists on each side have to say. And for a long time there has been a great deal of evidence to show each side is correct. But for those who only wish to hear one side of the story you might want to read this synopsis of the last few days' global warming headlines. According to these articles the ice level in both the Arctic and Antarctic is now recovering nicely. Since National Geographic is planning a major show on this subject soon I will be very curious to see how they deal with this latest information.

    http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?2bedc079-41fc-4718-a326-4c5a52013898
     
  18. earthy smells

    earthy smells Member

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    Don't get tied up with the short trend phenomena that media loves to spew. Look at the overall longterm trend.

    Also, we need to realize that the average entire warming of the globe and its oceans is much different than a regional climatic phenomenon, which is harder to predict and has more chance of error due to regional climatic variability.

    Ice increasing? Cooling from 12 months? People keep focusing on the small stuff. We need to realize that when you look at the big patterns, they agree that man is causing the globe to warm.
     
  19. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Although I appreciate your youthful exuberance, I believe you are equally as narrow minded as you caution me from being. Please allow me to expand.

    I am a published writer. I have published well over 300 articles nationally on a large number of subjects including the environment. I have spent time in South and Central American rain forests. I correspond almost daily with internationally recognized botanical experts and not all full agree with currently accepted premises. I do not simply point to single sources but have followed this and other environmental trends for many years. I didn't identify the fact to you and others earlier, but I am 62 and have seen a few more winters than you have at your youthful age.

    Also, I am one of less than 1000 people on the face of this planet who can prove I have logged over 5000 dives in the world's oceans. I've studied the impact of humans on the oceans first hand for many years and published what I've learned in many articles. I've seen what man is doing and is capable of doing and have reported it in the national press many times. I've physically seen coral reefs die in the Caribbean, South Pacific, Indian Ocean and Red Sea. I know what man is capable of doing. But I do not form long term opinions based on short term observations. And the facts are quite clear, there is a great deal of debate over what is causing the current global activity. There are at least 17,000 recognized scientists in the United States including some that are at the top of their field that do not totally agree with the "facts" as they are often presented. And now, even the folks at NASA appear to be saying the poles may not be in as great a danger as some would have all of us to believe. I simply do not know! But I am trying to learn. The jury is not back! And we have a lot more to learn before we can fully place blame.

    So, although I know I will never cause you to open your mind to other options, please do not scold me for reading EVERYTHING and not just some things. I want to know what is really happening. I do not wish to assume what may be happening based on a predetermined outcome as is now all too popular.

    I fear your youth has not granted you the wisdom as yet to see all that is out there to be learned. Your assumption the winters are getting warmer based on your barely 20 years of existence is hardly adequate to draw any scientific conclusion. Please at least allow me the courtesy to form my own conclusions based on fact. Not hype.

    You are free to express your opinion, but so am I! And I never said anywhere I discount global warming. I am still trying to learn exactly what is happening including ALL the causes of the effect. In the 1970's scientists believed the earth was cooling. Then we all began to believe it was heating. Now it appears the other side is beginning to prevail again. There is a great deal more that needs to be learned. Is man a culprit? You bet! Are we the only cause. I simply am not willing to say that at this time!

    Twenty years, 50 years, even 100 years is hardly adequate to form a conclusive opinion as to what is truly going on. The earth has had periods of cooling and heating before and that is well documented in science. We've had ice ages and periods when even Kansas was a sea. Just because the temperature has climbed in a 20 or 30 year period is not adequate to state conclusively the world is about to die. Reason will prevail. Not exuberance.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 1, 2008
  20. bedixon

    bedixon Active Member

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    both earthysmells and photopro have valid, intelligent viewpoints; you are both coming from the same place of caring about what happens to the planet. If only we can get a few more million people having healthy debate on the subject! Here's a link with a great theory on this very debate. If you haven't seen this guy's "most terrifying video you'll ever see", it's worth the viewing. www.youtube.com/watch?v=zORv8wwiadQ
     
  21. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Excellent thoughts. And it is well reasoned, not just panic thinking. I stated earlier we should all do our part. We need to educate ourselves and understand what we are dealing with. But panic is not the solution. Action is! What concerns me is all the people who yell "do something" while they personally do nothing and expect everyone else to do it for them. Donating money to someone to plant a few trees to counteract your "carbon footprint" simply won't work!
     
  22. bedixon

    bedixon Active Member

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    I wholeheartedly agree that "doing something" means much, much more than changing your lightbulbs to a lower wattage etc etc. People need to "get it", that it's up to them, the individual, each and every one of us, to educate ourselves on these issues. Don't wait for the government to take charge, it aint going to happen. It may mean missing that favourite tv show (I'm shocked at the knowledge some people have about what their fave celebrity's kids eat for breakfast, but can't show you Iraq on a map), but with the internet the information is at our fingertips and there really is no excuse. Googling key words will get many (hundreds of thousands, groan) hits on the subject of improving our human habits to help our ailing world. (Of course you can't believe everything on the internet, that goes without saying, but I should say it anyway). It's all out there, one just has to look for it. Or be nagged by someone else who cares!
     
  23. earthy smells

    earthy smells Member

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    I never said 20 years of weakening winters was the result of global warming. I don't think I did, at least.

    The jury is not back on *what?*
    Short term, regional climate predictions like ice on the poles?
    Or that man is causing global warming, rather than non-anthropogenic causes?
    The conclusion is pretty solid on the latter.

    This isn't comparable to the 70s, when we barely even had the computers & knowledge we have today. No way.

    And what does a botanist have to do with climate?
     
  24. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    According to data released this week from science sources the poles appear to be regaining portions of their ice. The "jury is out" on what the total cause may be that made them loose it in the first place. Certainly, man is having an input. But since the Earth has experienced many periods of significant cooling and heating we can hardly state, to any scientific conclusion, man is the sole cause of the current recorded data. We could just as easily be on our way to a natural warming or a natural cooling period of significance.

    That does not mean we should not do our part to limit additional stress on the Earth. But it cannot be concluded with scientific accuracy that man is the sole cause. We had a period of heating in the early part of the last century followed by a period of cooling. No one can say with certainty the Earth is not doing what it does naturally.

    Still, if we limit our personal impact, we personally cause as little extra harm as possible. What alarms me is the scare tactics employed by many to make a point that can easily be made with reasoning. Simply quoting line after line of "facts" without any scientific sources does not create a scientifically accurate compostion. If I ever tried to send an article to any editor worth their salt without documentation they would throw my work in the trash. If you are going to quote scientific sources, name them.
     
  25. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    >data prior to 1970 is less robust than present-day measurements<

    I think that is true for many of us, I certainly didn't have the same robust measurements prior to 1970 that I have now.

    If some polar ice recovery is being seen that is interesting, the recent losses have certainly been appalling. Are the "science sources" mentioning how latest trend fits within cycles? Presumably they were talking about cumulative growth, with contractions occurring at the same time.
     

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