Green House Plane With Large Leaves

Discussion in 'Plants: Identification' started by tbilisi, Jun 13, 2010.

  1. tbilisi

    tbilisi Member

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    Hi,

    Please help me identify this plant, and I will be most grateful if anyone can tell me how to split this plant (grow another one)... it always grows a new leaf from the middle and I cannot think of a way to grow a new plant from it's leaf.

    I appologise for being unable to explain this well, but I don't know much about plants and I would like to grow another like this and give to a friend.


    Many thanks in advance.
    germane.
     

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  2. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Looks like Alocasia macrorrhizos or possibly A. odora. You can't grow a new one from a leaf cutting, but if you give it a bit of time it will produce a second tuber, which you can separate and give to your friend. Or, you can check your local grocery stores for Giant Taro or Eddoe root, and plant that - it will give you the same plant.
     
  3. Fen Sandar

    Fen Sandar Active Member

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    IF you really must try from the leaf, there are a few products made specifically for growing new plants from leaf cuttings. You don't need these with African violets or schefflera so I am not sure how well they work or even if they will work for you on these.

    I know Logee's greenhouse website sells this stuff because I have been eying it for when/if I ever get my hands on some citrus clippings.

    Usually I stick my stem or large leaf clippings in water for a few days after clipping (until I see little roots forming) then put them in starter mix, but you may do better with this putting it directly into potting mix as the chance of it rotting before rooting is much less.

    Seems like the shoots off of the roots would probably be a much much better idea unless you are determined to try this though...
     
  4. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Ah, but Fen, all the hormone in the world won't work with Aroid leaf cuttings - you have to get some stem, and since Alocasia don't produce true stem for at least 5 years of constant growth, just petioles, it's a lost cause. They're monocots and they're not receptive to this type of propagation.
     
  5. saltcedar

    saltcedar Rising Contributor 10 Years

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  6. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Yes, but Zamioculcus zamiifolia is a notable exception to a large number of rules....
     
  7. saltcedar

    saltcedar Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    True but Sansevieria is a Monocot and it also propagates from leaf cuttings ;-)

    However, I do agree that propagation of a large leafed Aroid likely
    would be unsuccessful.
     
  8. Fen Sandar

    Fen Sandar Active Member

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    Might be worth a try if you are very very impatient and don't want to buy any more roots. But be prepared for it to fail because its probably will not work. Might try the cutting main veins method to try for multiple leaves ^.^
     
  9. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Disclaimer: The author of this post does not claim to be a botanical expert. The quotes used are given solely to provide information from qualified experts. Credits are commonly given to the owner of scientific information and that is the sole purpose here. No attempt is being made to associate the author of this post with these experts as a peer, only a researcher that has access to the source.



    Lorax is very correct. It is scientifically impossible to induce this plant to grow new roots from a leaf cutting.

    According to the most comprehensive scientific text known to science, The Genera of Araceae by Mayo, Bogner and Boyce, of the approximately 3500 species in 116 genera only two are known aroids that are able reproduce from a leaf. In nature this is a survival characteristic known to only two aroids: Zamioculcas zamiifolia and Gonotapus boivinii

    The text, The Genera of Araceae states, "Regeneration of tubers, leaves and roots from leaf segments is well known in Zamioculcas zamiifolia and Gonotapus boivinii (Engler 1881, Schubert 1913, Cutter 1962). Isolated entire leaflets of Zamioculcas and Gonatopus spontaneously develop a basal swelling, followed by the formation of roots and up to 3 buds, over a 6-9 week period for Zamioculcas. Leaf regeneration in Gonatopus is more rapid. The results of experimental manipulation of isolated leaflets grown in culture show that any part of the compound leaf is capable of regeneration".

    You can read the entire text, and I've read most of it, and I don't believe you can find another species capable of this kind of growth. I have asked Dr. Simon Mayo personally about this very subject.

    No other aroid including any Alocasia, Colocasia, Xanthosoma, Philodendron, Anthurium or any other genera other than the two species named can be induced to grow a new plant from a leaf alone. It is the formation of the bulblets at the juncture of the petiole and leaf that allows this form of growth to occur.

    Once the leaflets of these species begin to become deciduous and drop it is not uncommon for them to form a bulblet or tubercle at the end of the petiole. These leaf tubercles allow the regeneration of a new plant. The tubercles regularly develop at the juncture of a leaflet and petiole. Aroids that have an underground starch storage unit only grow from a tuber.

    During the native dry season Zamicoculcas zamiifolia in the regions of Africa where the plant survives it does become totally deciduous and commonly looses all its leaves asit goes into survival mode and waits for the heavy rainy season to return. Despite commonly held belief, this species does love water, it is just able to survive by shedding itself of all the leaves as a survival technique. It commonly grows along the edge of forest in much wetter conditions than those that sell it would like for you to know. One of the most read complaints about he species is when every leaf on the plant drops and the grower can't understand why since they have been "following the rules". In truth, they are only following the "rules" of a seller and not Mother Nature. This species needs to be watered regularly and is commonly displayed in the wet rain forest sections of majoy botanical gardens.

    You could use thousands of dollars of hormone on the leaves of the plant show above and all you would grow is a deficit in your wallet.

    Beth, I believe the species shown is Alocasia odora based on the structure of the major veins.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2010
  10. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Thanks, Steve - I have a heck of a time telling A. odora and A. macrorrhizos apart... Thanks, too for the clarification - certainly if I could propagate Aroids by leaf cuttings, I would have been doing it years ago!
     
  11. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Glad to help Beth. I sent you a copy of the text the Genera of Araceae so you can research subjects such as this in more detail. It is a major book with over 300 pages so have fun reading!

    I am sure this idea occurs since there are species in other plant families that can be induced to produce a new plant from a leaf cutting but the same does not hold true scientifically for aroids with the exception of the two species named in TGOA.

    Steve
     
  12. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    What about other species of Gonatopus? - the wikipedia article claims the genus has 5 species, I'd be surprised if one was different to the other four in rooting behaviour. Same article also says Gonatopus is a close relative of Zamioculcas.
     
  13. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Since you are in the UK I would recommend you call Dr. Simon Mayo at the Royal Botanic Garden Kew. Problem is, he just retired. (apologies to those that read my screw up with the spelling of "Kew".)

    All I can do is quote the text which is considered the ultimate aroid text in existence. In the The Genera of Araceae it clearly states their are only two species (both I quoted from the book) that can reproduce from bulblets found at the axis of the petiole and leaf. In truth the bulblets are not related to a bulb since all aroids only produce a tuber (same text).

    I asked about this specifically around 6 months ago and was given the same answer. Simon does not claim to be an expert in either genera but Dr. Josef Bogner is. Perhaps the Kew will give you his email address. I have it but was requested by Josef not to share it since he is not fond on email and prefers mail received via the slow boat. Apparently there is something unique about that species.

    By the way, I've checked many "details" offered by Wiki with the best botanists in that field and found they don't always quote the best sources.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2010
  14. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    I just re-read the entire Sexton on this subject. The generation of bulblets has been observed in a slightly larger number of species but only the one species of Gonatopus. Leaf regeneration has only been observed in the two species named.

    If anyone can find a more recent authoritative text on this subject with a differing opinion I would sincerely like to read the info. It is my understanding that a revised version of TGOA is under consideration but the original text is now out of print.

    Beth, check your copy and let me know if you find anything different.
     
  15. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    From wikipedia on Gonatopus, "The most commonly found Gonatopus in private collections and cultivation is Gonatopus boivinii" - my guess is that the other species simply haven't been tested yet for regenerative abilities. But that's only a guess of course.
     
  16. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Could be Michael, but please remember you are dealing with three world class botanists that have have spent a great deal of their lives in the field studying these plants. Josef expecially has spent an incredible amount of his life studying these species in the wild. I sincerely doubt they would have published such a consise statement unless they had observations to back it up. I would be very hestant to quote Wiki which is written by someone that has very likely only done a research study and not by a botanist that has spent their life actually studying the plants in the field. Only one species may be common in collections but at this moment I have all three in my own greenhosue since I am stoiring a large collection for another serious collector.

    These gentlemen are not "collectors", they are the top scientists in the field each with multiple books and research papers to their credit.

    Steve
     
  17. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    I just wrote Dr. Mayo, Dr. Bogner, Dr. Tom Croat, Dr. Wilbert Hetterscheid and Peter Boyce collectively and asked for documentation on this subject.
     
  18. Tropical Foliage

    Tropical Foliage Member

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    WOW, I never seen a plant like that. That is really cool!
     
  19. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Fair point, though I do wonder how much time they devote to vegetative propagation experiments . . . it isn't something botanists (as opposed to horticulturalists) get involved in very much ;-)
    Give them a try to see if they'll root from a leaf!
     
  20. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Not my plants but I will ask the owner. In the meantime I'll take the advice of the experts that have already studied all of this.
     
  21. Fen Sandar

    Fen Sandar Active Member

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    If you already have the stuff for rooting from leaf and the owners say you can try it let us know the results please!
     
  22. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    I have all the stuff but the process of growing new plants, especially from Zamioculcas is a very slow process. I have done it before and it takes up to 6 months under good conditions.

    I am told the process with Gonotapus boivinii is faster. You don't need rooting hormone, all you need is a closeable clear salad container, a descent soil mix that is about one half sand and a very humid environment. The trick is finding a leaf with a bulblet attached at the petiole.
     
  23. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    I have been chasing this subject most of the day. So far the only other family I have been able to find that can grow new plants from leaf cuttings is the family Amorphophallus. Several botanists have responded and this is the only new one I have uncovered.

    This article was published after The Genera of Areacea was printed. This appeared in volume 30 of the Interntional Aroid Society Journal, Aroideana. I am reprinting it in full

    As of this afternoon absolutely no botanist or aroid expert has even commented on the possiblity of taking a leaf and petiole of a species such as an Alocasia and making it produce a new plant, with or without hormones.

    Steve


    Page 124 AROIDEANA, Vol. 30
    ropagation of Amorphophallus by Leaf
    Petiole Cuttings
    Tony Avent
    Juniper Level Botanic Garden
    @ Plant Delights Nursery Inc.
    9241 Sauls Road
    Raleigh, NC 27603
    919.772.4794
    January 29,2007

    ABSTRACT
    It is our hope to expand the available information with regards to amorphophalIus propagation by leaf petiole cuttings based on our experiments between 2004 and 2006. Leaf petiole propagation is certainly not a new idea but one that we felt deserved a more systematic experiment to refine our knowledge of the subject.

    KEYWORDS
    Amorpbopballus, leaf petiole cuttings,
    Araceae.


    INTRODUCTIONS, SCOPE AND DETAILS OF THE PROJECT

    Propagation of amorphophallus is accomplished primarily via seed. Some selected cultivars which are used as food crops, are propagated by tuber cutting (e. g. A. paeoniifolius), and others which offset freely can be propagated by natural offsets (for example, A. albus, A. konjac). Our experiments were designed to explore leaf petiole propagation as a faster and more economical method to build up selected clones of a wide array of species. We began our first attempts at amorphophallus propagation in summer 2003, under the direction of our research supervisor, Petra Schmidt. Petra had used petiole cuttings when she worked at Missouri Botanical Garden, before coming to Plant Delights Nursery. We attempted to track down the origin of the use of leaf cuttings for reproducing Aorphophallus and found that the idea seems to have come independently via many sources. My first
    knowledge of this technique goes back to a 1997 discussion of leaf petiole cuttings on Aroid-I, between Dewey Fisk, Kathy Upton, and Steve Marak. Kathy Upton of the University of Missouri, St. Louis, MO, then wrote a follow-up article for the Spring 1998 lAS Newsletter, describing her technique for leaf petiole propagation of Amorpbopballus titanum. Tom Croat, however, remembers a paper from the 1970's by a Professor in Frankfurt, Germany, describing the technique, but we have not had luck locating the article or its details. Tom also indicated that the paper was also presented at a conference at the Missouri Botanic Garden.

    Additionally, Petra Schmidt remembers a traveling companion of Dr. Jim Symon that mentioned to her in the 1980's that he had seen amorphophallus leaves rooting on the ground during their travels in the tropics and that she should try the technique. Before starting on the formal experiments, we experimented with stem, leaf, and leaf petiole cuttings and found that the leaf petiole cuttings gave the best results, compared to petiole cuttings or leaf cuttings with little or no petiole. Beginning in 2004, we tracked our results using only leaf petiole cuttings. From 2004-2006, we stuck 11,349 amorphophallus cuttings, which are recorded below (Table 1). Overall, the results were quite successful, and we will continue to refine our techniques and test more species in the upcoming years. We also hope that others will see fit to further expand on our findings.
     
  24. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    While engaging in an on-going discussion with some very experienced aroid growers and scientists I've also found two more genera in which leaf regeneration is possible. Dracontium and Schismatoglottis. Please note, some of this has only been observed and not verified and all the species found so far are somewhat related. I've asked Malaysian botanist Pete Boyce for more information since he is one of the observers in the wild.

    The process has not be observed in the aroid on this page.
     
  25. tbilisi

    tbilisi Member

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    lorax, Fen Sandar, saltcedar, photopro, Michael F and Tropical Foliage,

    Thanks you all for your feedback and help... I think my plant is either Alocasia Macrorrhiza or Alocasia Odora.

    Is it possible for it to flower in home conditions ?? (i.e. do something other that produce identical leaf)
    It is the only plant in house, and it doesn't get much open air action in north London (UK) urban area.

    I am way below a novice in my plant growing skills, but for what its worth, I tried twice to propagate from leaf cutting (once in London tap-water, once in compost) and I failed both times, misserably. I wish I red The Genera of Araceae first ;)


    Thanks onece more for your time and sharing your knowledge...
     

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