i've just been given a ginko 'sapling' in a pot...it looks very happy and is about 2 feet tall with new growth at the top...i think its in about a 6 " pot at the moment....i live in abbotsford and wonder if this slow growing tree is suitable for growing in a pot on a long term basis?..does it like to grow into bigger pots or does it prefer roots crowded?..will it winter in a pot?..anything special it needs for feed? thanks in advance for the help! murphy
I had two small ginko trees in pots on my patio and lost both this past winter. Probably the pots were too small for the temperatures we had. A much larger pot or burying the pot in your garden or moving it inside for the coldest part of the winter would be my sugestion.
...i've just planted mine in a half barrel..hopefully it will be big enough for some protection to the roots and hopefully we will have gentle winters!...thanks for replying murphy
Potted Ginkgoes I grow a lot of Ginkgoes in pots. Hundreds of them. I like to graft them. Books say not to buy one that is root bound but I have been able to hold them in pots much easier than I can with my Japanese Maples. they have been doing well in containers for years, even when root bound and in need of repotting. I believe that container growing of Ginkgoes will work. Pictures, starting top left and clockwise. a nice 'Sentry' flanked, on the left, by a row of 'Autumn Gold', a newly grafted 'Thelma's Broom', a small 'Tubiformis' and 'Chase Manhattan'.
how common would the weeping (topgrafted) Gingko be? I ask because I know of one in a nursery that is young, well priced and fairly decent shaped - and I haven't heard of one before...
Hi Jimmyq: The Weeping Ginkgo is seen more frequently in Europe rather than North America. It is not a common plant here. I think for most weepers that topgrafting has, for the most part, recently become almost a standard means for grafting. With Ginkgos it is keeping the roots from freezing which would be your number one concern but other than that I think that Ginkgos in the right hands and planted in the right locations can be wonderful trees. For us here they are used seemingly as accent street trees a lot as they keep their shapes well. One knock has always been that they are slow growers but that is not so true when they are properly cared for in a landscape setting. A weeper such as shown in the two pics below becomes a plant that I would have real interest in if I saw one available at a nursery. http://www.xs4all.nl/~kwanten/cultpendula.htm Jim By the way, I learned Ginkgo as being a prehistoric tree. Fossil records show that Ginkgo was around as early as the Jurassic period.
Weeping Ginkgo 'Pendula' is often, really 'Horizontalis'. There is one called 'Pragense' that I was told is a true weeper but a discription of it is as follows, "short, wide parasol habit". I have a seedling that has shown some weeping tendencies but is probably not more than 2' tall. If I can restrain myself from grafting onto it, I will continue watching it in hopes that it will have a good pendulous habit. I have several 'Pendula' grafted, two on standards, the rest are low grafts. They seem to grow faster than many other cultivars. I would say that on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the least common, 'Pendula' would be a 7. Just a guess. Send me some wood and I'll graft it.
Hello Elmore: I suggest you look at the second pic of the URL I listed. The first tree from that URL originated from Germany. Look at the second tree and tell me if it is the same tree as the first one to you? Notice where the latter tree is growing ("Pragense"). Those two forms are not at all common to North America by any means and neither is 'Horizontalis'. Perhaps the people you have talked to say Horizontalis is common to North America but I surely would question them on that. Here are some pretty nice pics of other forms from the same site. http://www.xs4all.nl/~kwanten/cultivars.htm Jim
Hi Elmore: Years ago I had a lengthy discussion with Don Kleim about Ginkgo after we saw 2 forms, both shown from the Netherlands site, that caught my eye. For a very long time Ginkgos out here were purchased by the state and select cities from growers at "conservation" prices, almost give away prices, to be used mainly as street trees. When the municipalities wanted to know how to grow them and what to do with them a not very surprising turn of events happened and that only a few nurserymen really knew anything about the plants. The city arborists had to ask the nurserymen what to do with the trees those arborists selected for usage only due to how cheap the plants were to buy. Ginkgos have not ever been considered a money maker for the nursery industry. When one considers that over 90% of all of the nursery stock produced in the US comes from California and Oregon and those growers were not growing Ginkgo because there was no market for those trees, that only the standard tree was available for purchase. After seeing the variegated form I asked Don why we had not seen that one grown more in the San Francisco Bay area, his main market, to which he told me that no one really wanted them. Aside from their being slow growers out here there were not enough people that knew anything about Ginkgos to generate a following for them. I've used them in landscape plantings. I planted 3 forms of 24 trees just in a 2 1/2 acre plot for my church back in 1990. I really had to "work it" to get those 3 forms I wanted as I had to buy them from the East Coast. There were none available West of the Rockies. I thought for our Conifer garden at the church that Ginkgos would provide a nice, low maintenance accent tree and they surely did do what I had hoped for them. Ginkgos out here still have not caught on and because of that I know there are not many varieties grown here or in Oregon still, so there cannot be many in North America. Ginkgos may be more available to you all because a few select people decided to grow them for themselves but the number of plants elsewhere in the US is really too few to be considered not worth mentioning. For about 20 years weeping forms of plants were hot, everyone that had some sophistication with plants wanted a weeper for their yard. Many Blue Weepers (Cedurs atlantica 'Pendula') were sold as well as top grafted and weeping Yoshino Cherry. When Lindane was taken off the market people started having problems with their weepers as there was no real insecticide treatment for the borers. Sure, there were some studies done on syringe injections directly into the cambium of a tree that seemed promising in theory but the trees did not respond well in actuality and the trees still eventually succumbed to the borers. After being bitten once people did not want a weeper and to be honest it seems like only select people will want a weeper now many years later and it is an Akamatsu (Pinus densiflora 'Pendula'). I was not coming down on you for giving Pendula a 7 for a rating. I know Ginkgo is your plant but I also know Pendula just cannot be found very easily at all as I had a friend that wanted one after he saw the one in Trompenburg! We gave it a good old try here in the US and finally secured one the hard way from Europe. We also had come in a 'Horizontalis' and even though there are some similarities those two forms are as different as cheese and chalk. I think if enough people saw the forms in the Netherlands site that quite a few people would have interest in Ginkgos but people will have to see what a large plant of it looks like to have any real interest in the plant. Spouting names without showing a tree of some substance will have no impact whatsoever and that is not your fault, that is just how things are. Brandishing names, even to me has no meaning, as I want to see the plant, then I will worry about the names. Okay, so this dumb farmer is a bit backwards in how he does things but I do know how the nursery industry works and the behavior patterns of people in plants far better than most people in these forums will and elsewhere. The only reason why one certain arboretum has Ginkgos was because the plants were donated to them. Those plants would not be there otherwise. You have some serious educating to do to get people to want these plants and to me personally it is a real shame as I've always liked Ginkgos. Jim
Ginkgoes Ah... yes, I see. I didn't pan down to the second pic. That one, to me, is pendulous. The first one grows like a 'Horizontalis'... I think. A good deal of confusion when dealing with Ginkgo cultivars. The 'Pendula' cultivars that I grafted have not yet grown enough to show a growth habit, they are about 2 yrs old now. It is said that when propagating Ginkgo through grafting or with rooted cuttings that they are subject to a topophytic effect. That being that if you graft a lateral branch it retains that "memory" and continues to grow or at least has a tendency to grow laterally. 'Horizontalis' may have originated this way. I spoke with Peter Del Tredici and he suggested stooling or using a modified stooling procedure to obtain scion that does not have that lateral memory. In other words, establish a cultivar and cut it low or even polard it and use the epicormic shoots for scion. In talking with some long time growers and grafters of Ginkgoes they have not experienced a problem with topophysis. I stake mine and prune to encourage upright terminal growth but this is still an experiment for me at this stage. With 'Fastigiata' I have not needed any staking as of yet. I have a small lot of 'Elmwood' recently grafted/budded earlier this spring that look very promising, they took. I have been told that the original 'Elmwood' is about 19'x9". Perhaps I don't recall the dimensions accurately but that is one skinny Ginkgo. Perhaps I won't have to stake much with them either. I don't like to stake unless I have to. Attached is a picture of a local Ginkgo that shows an upright growth habit but has distinctively pendulous branching. She's a female though. A prolific producer of small fruit. That's good too. More interesting info can be found here: http://ohioline.osu.edu/sc157/sc157_13.html
Hi Elmore: I've now got a weeper from Oregon coming in so I can compare that plant to the one that came in from Europe. Obviously I got myself into a real gray area asking a few questions to someone I've known for a long while. The problem that I see is, are the weepers really a weeper or are they somewhat pendulus based on their horizontal growth, then seem to the onlooker like they are weeping due to the weight of the growth. I'll let someone else try to answer that one but I now intend to do some checking on it of my own. We used Autumn Gold and Fairmount for the church as well as an unnamed seedling selection that has upright pyramidal growth. I have a suggestion for you. You may want to start listing named varieties and posting pics of what you have and show a mature or reasonably mature plant of it. You are not growing them for fun as you will want to sell some of them in time. Let the people of the UBC learn about them as some people may be ready made buyers for you. There is not a lot of interest in generating a following in any one species of plant other than Maples and as Don would say, the names are all screwed up. You know my sentiments towards Maples and I have been angry about that subject for several years. The smart thing to do is to lay low for a while in these forums as I must have the lowest approval rating of anyone. No one really responds to my posts and the number of thank yous for any help or comments is almost non existent. I think it is time to let others have their forums back as people sure do not like my input at all! This is it for a while. I'll be a "looky lu" until someone I feel is right gets into a little trouble or if people are dead wrong with the ID of some of the plants. Jim
weeping Jim, now you have me weeping...hehe. What about this weeping Ginkgo from OR? Is it a named cultivar? Is it grafted, rooted or grown from seed? It is difficult getting pictures of mature Ginkgo cultivars. At least those that I think that I can use. Most of the scion wood, bud sticks that I get and are from a named cultivar come from out of state or originate from a small plant. Attached is a picture of the largest 'Autumn Gold' that I know of in this area. I'll bet it's no more than 15'. I started grafting from this tree in 1996, my first Ginkgo grafts. Also attached are pictures of two 'Magyar' that I brought in from KY and sold here in the Tennessee Valley, last year. They are 3" and limbed up. Once established I am confident that they will be beautiful trees. Two local sources of scion. I also sold two in Memphis, TN so that if I need more wood I can drive about three hours, cut my wood and hang out on Beale St. singing "I Can't Make No Money Growin' Ginkgo Blues".
Hi Elmore: The 'Pendula' coming in is topgrafted and is about 5' tall. Costs me more to have it shipped here than what I paid for the plant so I plan to pick it up in person in a month or two. Your market is out here, West of the Rockies but not enough people know much about Ginkgos. If they do know anything it is just the standard plant. The street tree stigma will not help either but not very many people know how the cities got their plants to start with. Get some variegates and the ‘Mayfield’ out here and watch may soon happen for interest. As mentioned in the E-Mail about the variegated form we saw in the gals front yard in Palo Alto, a few questions did arise such as how old a tree was that 40 footer? Where did she get it and why weren't there more of them? I know what I went through to get the trees from the East Coast and I had some help from Don in securing them. That was about 2 years before we saw the variegated Ginkgo. We did some checking for suppliers and came up empty aside from a few plants that were supposedly available from Europe until I wanted one of them! It is tough now growing plants on that we like in which there is not a big following for. That can change for the better is what I tell myself with some of the old Maples I have. I can call one of them a Shep’s Revenge or perhaps a Susieq Gold and they would be hot but it will not be me to do that. Time to go outside and look at my Washington grown 'Karasugawa' which is an ‘Oridono nishiki’ instead or I can go look at my “misspelled†‘Kurabeyama’. "Life can be wonderful as long as we don't weaken!" Jim
Variegated Ginkgoes Jim, I have grafted a local male tree that I was told variegates from time to time. I have not yet seen it variegated. I have heard that the most stable cultivars are 'Rainbow' and/or 'Sunbeam'. They may be the same plant, synonomous. I don't know if I got the names right as I am working off of some old brain cells but if not correct with those cultivar names I am sure that I am pretty close. You mentioned a 'Rainbows End' and that may be the same as the one that I have read about called 'Rainbow'. You know how these names get worked around. I name the local trees that I graft so that I can identify them. Most look the same when they are small. I notice a lot of growers put initials and numbers on them and maybe register a name later. Last night I was on the phone speaking to Harold Johnston (the originator and owner of the pattented Japanese Maple 'Beni shi en') and I mentioned a small tree that I got from him and is tagged "purple seedling". He said "Oh, 'Wetumpka Red' ". Well, I have been meaning to get that cultivar for some time and I had it the whole time only I knew it as "purple seedling". Other Ginkgo cultivars that I am looking to obtain are 'Bow Tie', 'Chris' Dwarf', 'Pragense', 'Sunbeam' and/or 'Rainbow' and 'Todd' or maybe it's 'Todd's Broom'. There are some more and I would probably like to have three of each but a step at a time. Send scion, please.haha
Hi Elmore: In regards to the variegates one thing to keep in mind as that when the plants are young there will be differences in the colors as opposed to an older tree. What may appear to be a promising new variegate may not be all that different than some of the older plants coloration are in a few years. We saw that same thing happen in Japanese Maples a lot. Then again if enough people are working on Ginkgos there can be a wide range of variegates that can be developed or found over time. The large variegated tree we saw was closer in color to the 'Variegata' pic from the Netherlands site. I cannot tell you if the shape and growth habits of the two plants are the same. Could 'Rainbows End' and 'Rainbow' be the same plant or perhaps are they just a “glorified “ Variegata? Yes, they could be the same and they can also be different as well for now but what will the trees look like in another 20 years? The Europeans with trees, not necessarily with flowering shrubs, have had more patience in waiting a longer period of time to name something rather than us in the US. It used to be that people waited 7-10 years to name a Maple. Now we have people naming Maples before those plants are 2-3 years old. I do think that the RHS for registering names for plants has been evaluated over time much better than us. In other words if the RHS recognizes a Ginkgo by a varietal name then it is going to be recognized by that name world wide. The US since the late 70's has had a problem with individual growers putting their own name or number on an plant. As an example, one grower may have released Rainbows End to the nursery trade even when he or she got their original plant or wood as being named Rainbow. Some growers wanted the added name traced back to them. By RHS standards it could be that neither plant is recognized by them as being Rainbow or Rainbows End. The problem I have with the Japanese Maple 'Karasugawa' is that I know of many nurseries that carried that Maple but none of them had the same plant as Mr. J.D. Vertrees had. Who had the right plant? J.D. did! No one, aside from a few of us, has bothered to ask how was the original plant(s) different than what the others were and are still calling Karasugawa. I do not agree with the changing of the name of a Maple by saying that the name was misspelled. I think that is knit picking as for 30 years or more, previous to the new, revised name, was good enough for the original book author. Several people of Japanese decent proof read the book. If there was a problem with how the name was spelled there were universal experts that would have mentioned it to Mr. Vertrees. I knew and still know some of those people and they never said a word about the spelling of ‘Kurabeyama’. Let's deal with the problem of why an English or Netherlands grown ‘Ki Hachijo’ looks entirely different in the structure of the leaf than mine does and my form can be traced back to the Island of Hachijo, instead of knit picking spellings. What people have to guard against in Ginkgos is the naming of plants that are similar, yet are not different enough to warrant being named. I like the "tree to be named later" idea as that means the tree will be evaluated over a period of time. It could be that the trees I have at the church have a name now but it did not come from me. Don would not have named them either. So, how is it going to look that the tree was named less than 4 years ago from the equivalent of a 5 or a 15 gallon sized plant and I've had these in the ground for 14 years? I'll let the person we got ours from name the seedling or the person he got his form from name it. Anyone else that had no hand in the original seedling should not be naming anything. I think the East Coast growers of the Ginkgos may want to start comparing notes with the Europeans and with the growers from "down under". Then a composite can materialize or start to be formulated to initiate a naming process that will have real meaning. ‘Chase Manhattan’ to the US may be another name entirely in Europe and it is that possibility that needs to be explored and perhaps solved. Jim
The reason I name the locally found Ginkgoes that I have grafted is to keep track of the plant in the nursery. For instance, I have grafted quite a few of a fastigiate form that a guy named Joe has growing on his property. I call it "Fastijoe" to keep track of it. Later I may label it "Ginkgo biloba f. fastigiata" and maybe add a number or series of letters. For now "Fastijoe" helps me to keep track of it and it's origin. These names are not registered and these clones may never have a registered name. I wonder, do you have to register a name when it pertains to a certain genus or species? What are the rules, if any? As far as Europeans or anyone else for that matter knowing 'Chase Manhattan' by another name, if that were to happen it would not be due to the geographic origin of this clone, it is an American discovery. 'Chase Manhattan' was discovered by Bon Hartline, primarily a fruit tree grower in Illinois. I just got off the phone with him and he gave me the low down on this cultivar. I didn't get the date but years ago he planted a couple of rows of Ginkgo in the field and one came up dwarf. He got rid of the others but kept the dwarf plant. Later a couple of fellas, Gene Eisenbach and Ted Dudley, from the National Arboretum came by and looked at this dwarf Ginkgo. They told Mr. Hartline that the Bonsai enthusiasts would really utilize a dwarf like this and that if he got it out in the trade he would "have Chase Manhattan". You know, the bank, riches. Bon Hartline, the originator of this tree, decided to call his introduction 'Chase Manhattan'. He said that the name is not registered or anything, he just simply named it 'Chase Manhattan'. In Dirr there is another dwarf Ginkgo named 'Bon's Dwarf' and when I asked Mr. Hartline about it, he had not heard of it so he and I came to the conclusion that it is the same plant as 'Chase Manhattan'. Go figure. I also learned that, according to Bon, 'Chase Manhattan' will get 20'-25' tall. Previously I heard 15'. He also warned of some possible revision of buds when it matures.
A few more ramblings. Hi Elmore: The problem as I see it is that a European form similar to 'Chase Manhattan' can already be in the works to be named. In Europe it may be a while before that plant is introduced into the nursery trade. Here things can be another story altogether. If perchance a seedling selection generates an interest and people become wanting of the plant, it is not unheard of for someone to contact a nursery to make some grafts and in no time the plant is in the nursery trade and the original person that selected the seedling can be left holding the proverbial empty bag. I know of one grower that was working on a series of plants and when the grower passed away plants were taken up to certain nurseries and then were immediately grafted and lo and behold the plants were in the nursery trade seemingly before the estate had settled as most of the stock plants were sold to select individuals. That kind of thing does not happen very often elsewhere. Don, to his credit refused to buy any of them and he was asked. Let's say someone raids you and you have labeled a 'Fastigiata' for your records, do you suppose that "Mr. Five Finger Discount" will dispose of the label or will that label mean a few extra dollars to him and the grower in New York or in Maryland? Hey, I got a Ginkgo biloba 'Fastigiata' from a friend down South, do you want to grow this plant on? Don lost one of the rarest Helleborous he ever had as one night the plant had "legs" and in three years local nurseries were selling Don's plant and they knew the plant originally was Don's! Some nurseries would not carry it but a few others did. Don never used labels on his stock plants. He did that by design so he would know the plant in among others. It also forced me to know the plant, not by a plant label but by identifying the plant itself and I was given many an ID test on Don's Maples, Pines and his Magnolias. I either knew them by their characteristics or I did not get to know them at all. I know of 3 names of Maples that came from Hachijo and one of them is Ki Hachijo. That is not to say that the form in England and the Netherlands is not right, it is not the same as what a select few others had out here. I bought my plant from J.D. Vertrees himself and brought in five of them for Don. Don already had a large plant of it as he wanted to compare his form with J.D.'s even though the original plants came from the same source in Japan. When the plants were determined to be the same is when Don finally started grafting from his plant and had the others as backups just in case he lost his stock plant. The huge advantage the Europeans have over us is that somewhere there is a large Ginkgo for the growers and the scientific community to fall back on. This or that variety of Ginkgo can be found in Hamburg, Germany, for example and for registration purposes people will check out and study the large plant and the grafted offspring. It is not much different than what the UBC Botanical Garden is doing and that they are spending a lot of time studying the plants that they have. Is the name of the plant we were told correct is just one question I am sure they are asking themselves? We do not study our plants that much here. Most people want to find a new plant, get it into the nursery trade fast and then let others worry about whether the name is justified or not. All the while, in the meantime, the plant is being sold elsewhere. Best regards, Jim
Hi Elmore: Sometime you may want to expand your thread in another forum to include a short list (not all of them) of the cultivars you know about for Ginkgo. There truly isn't much information online about Ginkgoes such as the cultural aspects of the plant, the needs, the basics and what to be wary of. Most current online information assumes we already know how to grow the plant and basing the articles on that supposition is a disservice to everyone as well as to the plant. I think Ginkgoes is a subject area where you can help out the people that have helped you in the past plus help yourself. You might even help the cause for the UBC Botanical Garden to bring in some varieties of Ginkgoes to grow them on and evaluate them for the long term. I think that could be a lot of fun for everyone involved. The reason I bring up problem areas is because those issues have become a dilemma for us from the growing end of things. I know no one wants to hear or read about them but they do need to know about them. The weak link has always been the growing aspect of plants, how to keep them alive once we want to grow them for others and for ourselves. What you have to be extra cautious of is knowing the plants that you have. How to identify the various Ginkgoes you have so when you want to part with them or help someone else begin growing them that you know which plant is which variety. That may take you a while to sort out all of the varieties you have and you have quite a few of them. It could very well be that no one in Europe has as many varieties as you have so you have to learn how to protect them and not make the same mistakes that many growers here with Maples have made and that is have so many names that it becomes a major hassle to place the right name on the right plant. To be honest, everyone growing specialty plant material has had their fair share of miscues, no one has been immune to getting the names and the plants mixed up at some point in time. I do have another suggestion and that is to let people know which varieties are more likely to be a male as opposed to a female. You already know why I mentioned that If you need help let me know but you already know this plant far better than I do. Your enthusiasm for this plant may just become contagious sooner than you realize. Best regards, Jim
Thanks Jim I am already posting a series of different Ginkgo pictures in "Photography". Where is that large variegated form that you and Don found? San Mateo...Redwood City? My old haunts. If you are up there in that area, see if you can get me some scion wood. I used to work maintenance at Central Park in San Mateo and probably the first Ginkgo that I noticed was there, south of the central lawn area, the flag pole. I have heard that it turned out to be female.
I've grown bonsai's for years, and Ginko's make great bonsai. It they get root bound they often will put out new shoots as well. My trees do freeze if we have a cold Vancouver winter and come back every year. I make sure tha roots are moist before frost and put them next to the house in a cold frame to keep the drying winter winds off of them.
Gingko understock source, scion source I am looking for sources of understock and scion source. Can anyone help me? THanks.
rooting ginko? Does ginko root well using rooting hormone? A friend of mine says I can have a cutting from his tree, but since it's so slow growing I don't want to do that unless I'm pretty sure I can get it to root... do you think it will work? Or would I be better off just trying to grow it from seed, or buying a small plant?
