re: thread in fungus and Lichen identification called "need help identifying mushroom" The conversation in that thread went from a response to a specific ID request, to the start of a discussion about mushroom toxicity, so I'm hoping to redirect that topic to here. Dimitar commented about the perception of different poisoning rates in different parts of the world. In discussion with folks born in European/Slavic/Scandinavian countries, I'm often surprised at the number of familiar species which are eaten there, but considered poisonous to various degrees in North America. I was recently reading some material on Russian mushroom hunting and lore, and noted that a number of species are processed with boiling and salting in barrels for weeks, partly in order to remove toxins. I wonder if the reason such mushrooms are considered poisonous in North America is because they are chemically different in some way than the same species elsewhere, or if it is a preparation issue, or if our attitudes sufficiently colour our expectations about being poisoned or not. - frog
>Dimitar commented about the perception of different poisoning rates in different >parts of the world. Here is more from our forum MushroomTalk: “The cultural aspects of mushroom poisonings -- one common fallacy regarding Eastern Europeans†http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MushroomTalk/message/53 >In discussion with folks born in European/Slavic/Scandinavian countries, I'm often >surprised at the number of familiar species which are eaten there, but considered >poisonous to various degrees in North America. I do not think that general conclusions can be drawn – in every country there are people who tend to experiment more than others. There is a huge difference also from region to region. In E. Europe I’ve noticed that people from one side of the mountain may eat one thing and the people on the other side something else. Despite the general climate of fear of mushrooms, there is thriving strata of folks in the Pacific Northwest who experiment with mushrooms and try far more things than I’m willing to. Also, we can’t have a thread like this one without mentioning -- Charles McIlvaine. So, broad generalizations hardly make much sense. Actually, the only general thing that I have noticed, going back to the old literature is that there are few mushrooms, very notorious mushrooms, such as those in Section Phalloideae of Amanita, that in all cultures are universally engraved with skulls… Many other poisonous species seem to be culturally dependent -- I’ve heard and in some cases seen things being eaten – Satan’s Boletes, Emetic Russula, A. muscaria, etc. >I was recently reading some material on Russian mushroom hunting and lore, and >noted that a number of species are processed with boiling and salting in barrels for >weeks, partly in order to remove toxins. I’m not an expert on preserving mushrooms, and in even less in chemistry, but in general it makes sense that some poisons (obviously not all) can be destroyed via trivial processes, such as heating. >I wonder if the reason such mushrooms are considered poisonous in North America >is because they are chemically different in some way than the same species >elsewhere, or if it is a preparation issue, or if our attitudes sufficiently colour our >expectations about being poisoned or not. It would be interesting to examine specific species in that context. In some cases we may have the same name for two different phylogenetic entities. And in some cases simply it’s a matter of preparation -- whatever it is, I’m sure that there is some local Pole or Russian eats it… D. www.mushroomhobby.com
Beautiful photos on your site Dimitar! Given the fairly small number of mushroom poisonings reported generally, and the ease of misidentification, it does seem to make sense that there are a lot of mushrooms which are edible or non-toxic regardless of whether their edibility/toxicity has been "officially" determined. I expect lots of mushrooms, mistaken for species in for example Cantharellus, Psilocybe or Agaricus, have been eaten with impunity, if perhaps not with the flavour/experience desired by the eater.
This is an overly simple response but....of the number of species in both Europe & NA, a much higher % seem to be deadly poisonous in NA. When you factor in distribution and occurences of each species in the wild, there is a very good chance that a mushroom picked in NA (at least eastern NA) is going to kill you. When a safe mushroom is found, positive identification is also an issue as many safe ones look like dangerous ones. Apparently it's not the same situation in Europe. I stick to puffbulls, hard to make a mistake on those.
Hi "Frog", thank you. There is a general idea amongst the older folks that the field mushrooms are "safer". And probably for a good reason, despite the fact that there are dangerous as well. What you say below is precisely true for some of the small field mushrooms -- I remember us collecting a lot of Marasmius oreades. A couple of years back I went back to those same areas where we used to collect and I not only saw a lot of Marasmius, but also P. foenisecii, perhaps some Stropharia, may be even Conocybe lactea. I'm sure that a lot of that stuff has been eaten and since nobody noticed anything, it probably is safe. The great majority of people do not have any problems with Chanterelles and Agaricus -- once you see them, they're pretty much safe. I started collecting at the age of 7 (then stopped for 30 years) and never mixed the easy ones. My son, age 10 is an expert and helps the adults when they go hunting. Psilocybe is an American phenomenon that was not known in E. Europe when I was growing up. The people who started chasing it where Western hippies in the 70's who unbeknown to the locals always looked after the cow dung in the fields... D. www.mushroomhobby.com Join MushroomTalk at Yahoo! http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MushroomTalk/
[smivies] ...of the number of species in both Europe & NA, a much higher % seem to be deadly poisonous in NA. No, not true -- this right there is nonsense and kills the rest of the conjecture... [smivies] I stick to puffbulls, hard to make a mistake on those. I don't see much cause for comfort in that, as there are poisonous and disgusting puffballs. Their taxonomy is far from simple and it is abundantly easy to make a mistake. You'll be Ok, but will regret it. Once I met a person in the forest who was bypassing all the good edibles and collected only Suillus. His reasoning was that he knew only them – that was one shocking example of a person who needed to widen his horizons a bit. It is no badge of honor to play by the lowest common denominator. It is Ok to be afraid of mushrooms, but not Ok to be afraid to "LEARN" about them. D. www.mushroomhobby.com Join MushroomTalk at Yahoo! http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MushroomTalk/
You are right Dimitar - kids are particularly good at this sort of thing! Not just just for being lower to the ground, but it seems they pay attention to detail in a different way than adults. Maybe we lose some of the survivor-skill-edge as we age, as we stop using certain skills in our daily lives. I'm finding the oysters really interesting, and look forward to learning more. The regular edible Pleurotus species exudes a powerful toxin at the mycelial level, killing microfauna apparently not only to consume but to make a safe space full o' microcorpses around it. Interesting that it does not channel that toxin into the fruiting bodies as a defense against us and other mushroom eaters. Then we hear about the oddly specific Angel Wing poisonings reported in 2004 and later from Japan: They found the victim commonality of all males with a prior history of ... ack! I think it was kidney ... disease, but I don't think they know much yet about the toxin itself. Could it be the same poison as that used to kill the microfauna? I'm hoping someone might know more on this story.
