Dogwood selection

Discussion in 'Cornus (dogwoods)' started by Steve C, Feb 15, 2007.

  1. Steve C

    Steve C Member

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    I live in Vancouver BC and would like to plant a couple of Dogwoods on my property. They would be in full sun and in gravely soil on a lawn. I am interested in a tree that would not grow much more than 25' as the power lines would start to come into play. I want to avoid Blight and anthracnose problems. I like Eddie's white wonder but I have been reading about the Stellar series and wonder if I should go that route. Am I likely to have any fungal problems with "Eddie's" in this location? If so are the Stellar hybrids available in this area? Is planting the Stellar Celestial the way to go? I prefer the white but pink isn't out of the question. What would you do?
     
  2. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Might consider cornus kousa cultivars, too. Cornus alternifolia and contraversa are nice, although different type of flowers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2007
  3. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    'Eddie's White Wonder' is one of the best and more appealing than any of the Stellar dogwoods I have seen so far. However, one planted there could grow above 25 ft. eventually:

    "- 1819 2nd Ave N: 31' tall
    - 28th Ave NW & NW 83rd St: 30 1/2' tall in NE corner yard
    - St Anne's Church (1st Ave W & W Lee St): 9 street-trees interplanted with 6 'Dawyck' Beeches on 1st Ave W; the tallest 29' x 2'5"
    - 815 NE Ravenna Blvd: 28' tall"

    --Trees of Seattle - Second Edition
     
  4. Steve C

    Steve C Member

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    Thanks. Does Eddie's white wonder have many disease issues I should be worried about? It would be my first choice and I do want one but it might have to go into my backyard due to space limitations. I also do like the Cornus Alternifolia but would it tolerate full sun with the summers we have been haveing lately? It sounds like it might be about the right size for my application and I do like the form of the tree. I am not planting directly under power lines and they are quite high but I want to plant a tree that I can just let grow.
     
  5. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Eddie's does get anthracnose some years. Not sure how to prevent this, maybe spray. Likes its trunk shaded, rather pendulous lateral branches. Think one of the original trees was along W.Marine Drive in Vancouver up to a few years ago, but may have been moved to make room for a new building. C. alternifolia does well here in full sun, nice branch habit for winter appearance [ 3 trunks here] and very good fall colour. Floriferous and blue berries, which the birds like. Creates quite dense shade when in leaf. Thick , matted root system. Nice 4 season tree, good looking year round layered appearance. Very little pruning needed on either variety, the odd upright branch on a lateral branch had to be removed from C. alternifolia. Was started from seed about 20 years ago by a gardening friend, a favourite here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2007
  6. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    So you think the one at the Eddie place was the original? Seemed a bit small for that. Too bad the Cedar-of-Lebanon was limbed up.
     
  7. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Yes, understand it was moved, but can't remember where. Maybe it was smaller than some of the trees grown now, as it would have been on its own roots. Also, expect there would have been some variability in the seedlings from the original cross . Should have been more clear about that. Not sure what rootstalk is used on the propagated trees, but expect C. nuttallii.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2007
  8. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Only the one clone was put out, the rest were lost to flooding. Most of them were pink. As I remember it the one at the Eddie place did not look lacking in vigor, just young. If the 30 ft. tall ones were propagations of it that would be surprising. But I'm going on memory and you may have reliable information.
     
  9. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Apparently a sibling seedling was used for propagation, maybe it was more vigorous.
     
  10. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I remember now that there was some concern among some Vancouver tree buffs that the tree in question would be lost to development, as it was considered an original seedling. A suitable place was found for it , wish i could remember where, about 5-8 years ago. Suppose it's possible there was more than one 'Eddie's White Wonder ' on the property.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2007
  11. Gordo

    Gordo Active Member 10 Years

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    I have read that the original tree on the Eddie property was the sole survivor of the 1948 flood. The patent info (PP2413) indicates, if I recall correctly, that the oldest living plant at the time of the application (1962?) dated to about 1949-1951 (?). If these two facts are correct, the tree in question, it would seem, could not be the original seedling. The tree from the Eddie property was moved to VanDusen Botanical Gardens in 1994 according to the following:

    http://www.ncsu.edu/jcraulstonarbor.../horticulture/17-vol-6-no-2-horticulture.html

    Although this hybrid seems to exhibit what many refer to as "hybrid vigor" I haven't seen any documented studies that confirm it to be less susceptible to anthracnose.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2007
  12. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Well, my memory may not be serving me too well, but i'm not sure if all that info is correct. Basically going from local knowledge and aging memories here. Maybe Douglas Justice could shed more light on this if time allows, Doug? Will try to find out more.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2007
  13. Gordo

    Gordo Active Member 10 Years

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    I haven't been able to fully access the patent info for some time (Quicktime glitch). There is a difference in the time-frame from when the patent was applied for and granted - about 2 years, so it may be possible that the tree could be the original seedling. I think the patent info referenced how old the surviving tree was at the time. At least one article I read mentioned the original cross going back to the 1930's. Seems possible, since Eddie would have been quite an old man in the 1945-1948 era.

    USPTO search:

    http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph...CCLS.&Page=Next&OS=ccl/plt/220&RS=CCL/plt/220
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2007
  14. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    And the property may have been larger and subdivided over the years, so possibly more than one ' Eddie's White Wonder' on the original property. Maybe the original would not have been obvious from the street, but the obvious one could have been a younger tree.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2007
  15. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Would be tempted to grow c. nuttallii, providing shade for the trunk if possible. Maybe a multi trunked form would be suitable. Some people keep them in excellent shape somehow, and it would be worth finding out how. Been told it blooms about 8-9 years from seed. Really don't think any of the other dogwoods surpass it's beauty and reblooming in the fall.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  16. Gordo

    Gordo Active Member 10 Years

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  17. Steve C

    Steve C Member

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    Thanks for the input everyone. I think I am going to go with an Eddie's white wonder in the backyard and put the C. Alternifolia in the front corner under the power lines. I have about 25' of clearance so I do have some options. chimera the one you speak of that is 20 years old. How tall is it? What kind of soil did you put it in?
     
  18. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Gordo, Thanks for the info, surprised the tree was moved that long ago. A real memory test here. There was a book written about Vancouver trees years ago by the late Dr. Gerald Straley, but i seem to have misplaced my copy. i remember it was very informative and helpful to anybody wishing to observe mature trees, by location, in Vancouver.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  19. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    The C.alternifolia, multi trunked, is about 18-20' tall by about 30' wide. Forgot to mention it was pruned near the base to allow room to walk underneath. Will try to take pics tomorrow of it and Eddie's WW to give you an idea of how they grow here. EWWs are about the same age. It's in good soil, on a southerly slope in full sun.
     
  20. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Pagoda dogwood must be kept moist. If you are interested in that one plant 'Argentea' instead of the typical green plant.
     
  21. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Eom
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2007
  22. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    I'll stick my oar in here, as I see someone has mentioned my name in this thread. I have a very bad memory about these things, but I seem to recall that the particular flood that swamped the Eddie property was the big one in 1948.

    Of course, we can always ask J. Henry Eddie (son of HM Eddie), who is now in his 90s and undoubtedly knows the story.

    With respect to the suitability of various dogwoods for planting in the Vancouver area, there are many excellent choices available, depending on the "look" one is after. If it's the Pacific dogwood (Cornus nuttallii) look (i.e., 4-6 largish white bracts surrounding a button-like cornel), then 'Eddie's White Wonder' would be a good choice--it is marginally less suceptible to anthracnose than C. nuttallii--except that it would be disqualified on account of its size.

    Cornus kousa is a better choice in regard to both height and freedom form disease, but this species is very broad-spreading, with sweeping branches, and hence, tends to take up an enormous amount of room. It can be "pruned-up," of course, but this usually wrecks the graceful natural lines of the tree. The cultivar 'Satomi', with bright pink bracts and a narrower habit would do nicely.

    The spectacular Asian Cornus controversa and its North American sister species C. alternifolia are more like shrub dogwoods in their flowering and resistance to anthracnose, and certainly C. controversa is too tall for this situation, but both have variegated forms that are slow and more shrub-like. One must be prepared to pay dearly if one is attracted to such things.
     
  23. Gordo

    Gordo Active Member 10 Years

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    Douglas,
    thanks for responding to this thread. I think it would be fantastic if we could get some additional information from Mr. Eddie. Too often the facts surrounding noteworthy cultivars seems to get lost. I'd be interested to learn if there was indeed just one tree that survived this flood, and whether the tree moved from the Eddie property was an original seedling. Also, it would be interesting to learn the approximate time frame of the original crosses. A couple sources mention 1945, but this seems like it might be a bit late if the tree was in commercial production, as is also stated, by 1955.
     
  24. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    One in Lynnwood, WA was 33 ft. high by 1993. I don't remember the Eddie garden tree being anywhere near this big.
     
  25. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Douglas Justice, Thank you for sharing the knowledge and experience. We're fortunate to be able to grow all those varieties here. Steve C 2 pics of 'Eddie's W W' and one of C.alternifolia trunk. If you can have a look at Dr. G. Straley's book "Trees of Vancouver" you would likely be able to observe some trees close to your vicinity, if needed. Or communicate with forum members by going to "UBC Botanical Garden Forums" , then click "Regional: Pacific NW of North America" , then to thread "Heritage Trees in GVRD". They may be able to tell you tree locations mentioned in the above book, my niece has mine and not able to contact her yet.The EWW is about 25' high in 20 years, Some years tends to send up 2 leaders, but it hasn't been a problem so far. The few old leaves held over winter drop as the new leaves come out.
     

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