The Harper Conifer Collection at Hidden Lake Gardens in Tipton, MI, August 2005. (more than one clonal form in the trade)
Re: Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Pendula' Rich's Foxwillow Pines Nursery, Woodstock, IL; late May 2007:
Re: Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Pendula' Species now Cupressus nootkatensis, syn. Callitropsis nootkatensis, Xanthocyparis nootkatensis.
Re: Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Pendula' Hi Karalyn, all photos are different clones but all are still referred to as 'Pendula'. Dax
Re: Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Pendula' So are we suppose to start calling Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Cupressus'?
Re: Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Pendula' Cupressus = Cypress. Michael's comments relate to a voting which will occur in the next 8-10 years where all the conifer bigtimers will decide upon a new name for the Genus. Chamaecyparis being 'recognized' by the consumer and nurserymen presently which will change to : Callitropsis or Xanthocypress or Cupressus when this vote takes place as Michael has shown above. Dax
Re: Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Pendula' Just for this species - the other species of Chamaecyparis stay the same!
Re: Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Pendula' Seems strange to start using new naming pre-vote by 8-10 years.
Re: Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Pendula' The vote at the next botanical congress is to decide whether the newer name Xanthocyparis should be given priority over the older (but largely long-forgotten) name Callitropsis, if/when Nootka Cypress (and Vietnamese Cypress and ± some other cypresses) are treated in a genus of their own. This is a question of nomenclature. Separate from this, is the taxonomic question of whether Nootka Cypress and Vietnamese Cypress etc., should, or should not, be placed in the genus Cupressus, or a genus of their own; this depends on genetic research. This is still uncertain; there is some evidence, but not conclusive, that some cypresses are more closely related to junipers than they are to other cypresses; if yes, then the genus Cupressus has to be split in two, if no, then it doesn't. This latter does however have some bearing on the likely outcome of the vote, as one botanist who has recently completed a monograph on the cypresses has concluded that all of the American Cupressus species (including Nootka Cypress, and also Vietnamese Cypress) are genetically distinct from the European Cupressus species and should be treated in a distinct genus. The important factor regarding the future vote here is that in doing so, he used the name Callitropsis for the separate genus, which in his study comprises 18 species. But only two of them (Nootka Cypress and Vietnamese Cypress) have been given names in Xanthocyparis. If Xanthocyparis were to be voted the official name for this genus, it would mean that the 16 of these 18 species not given a Xanthocyparis name would have to be re-named yet again. It is unlikely that the members of the voting committee would favour this, so the vote is likely to support retention of Callitropsis as the new genus name. Does this help clarify, or muddy the waters further?? ;-)
Re: Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Pendula' Makes a lot of sense to me. Here's a table Michael wrote a while back (note: italic characters not shown) INFORMATION – (Michael F) 2007: Chamaecyparis. Asia, North America; cones mature in 6-8 months. Chamaecyparis formosensis - Formosan Cypress Chamaecyparis lawsoniana - Lawson's Cypress Chamaecyparis obtusa - Hinoki Cypress Chamaecyparis pisifera - Sawara Cypress Chamaecyparis taiwanensis - Taiwan Cypress Chamaecyparis thyoides - White Cypress Callitropsis - may be better regarded as a synonym of Cupressus, at least for the time being pending further DNA tests. North America, one in Vietnam; cones mature in 18-25 months (selected examples only): Cupressus arizonica (syn. Callitropsis arizonica) - Arizona Cypress Cupressus bakeri (syn. Callitropsis bakeri) - Modoc Cypress Cupressus glabra (syn. Callitropsis glabra) - Smooth Arizona Cypress Cupressus lusitanica (syn. Callitropsis lusitanica) - Mexican Cypress Cupressus macnabiana (syn. Callitropsis macnabiana) - MacNab Cypress Cupressus macrocarpa (syn. Callitropsis macrocarpa) - Monterey Cypress Cupressus nootkatensis (syn. Callitropsis nootkatensis) - Nootka Cypress Cupressus sargentii (syn. Callitropsis sargentii) - Sargent's Cypress Cupressus vietnamensis (syn. Callitropsis vietnamensis) - Vietnamese Cypress Cupressus, in the restricted sense. Eurasia, North Africa; cones mature in 18-20 months (selected examples only): Cupressus atlantica - Moroccan Cypress Cupressus cashmeriana - Bhutan Cypress Cupressus dupreziana - Saharan Cypress Cupressus funebris - Chinese Cypress Cupressus sempervirens - Mediterranean Cypress Cupressus torulosa - West Himalayan Cypress Sources: Gadek, P. A., Alpers, D. L., Heslewood, M. M., & Quinn, C. J. (2000). Relationships within Cupressaceae sensu lato. A combined morphological and molecular approach. American Journal of Botany 87: 1044-1057. Little, D. P., Schwarzbach, A., Adams, R. P., & Hsieh, C.-F. (2004). The Circumscription and Phylogenetic Relationship of Callitopsis and the Newly Described Genus Xanthocyparis (Cupressaceae) American Journal of Botany 91: 1872-1881. Xiang, Q. & Li, J. (2005). Derivation of Xanthocyparis and Juniperus from within Cupressus: Evidence from Sequences of nrDNA Internal Transcribed Spacer Region. Harvard Papers in Botany 9: 375-382. Little, D. P. (2006). Evolution and Circumscription of the True Cypresses (Cupressaceae : Cupressus). Systematic Botany 31: 461-480.
Re: Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Pendula' Never mind mud, I feel like I'm sinking in quicksand! Nevertheless, that list will be handy, thanks Dax, and of course Michael.
Re: Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Pendula' You just need to grab onto some Nootka Cypress roots to pull yourself out by!
Re: Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Pendula' ... thus taking refuge in common names to protect oneself from the botanists! No wonder common names persevere :-)
Re: Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Pendula' Yeah, but then someone comes along and tries to shoehorn it into Cedrus . . .
Re: Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Pendula' OK, now pretend three of the women got married and changed their names, and one decided he didn't like the name his parents gave him so changed it, another one had a sex change, and two use nicknames. NOW recite them! Good analogy, though; I've used it myself. And you're quite right that once you know the plants, remembering the new name isn't that hard. I do think it makes it harder for a newcomer to get to know them.
Re: Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Pendula' Yessiree Bob! What makes it even harder is that I'm reading the names but I haven't heard them in person. I could be saying the whole name wrong. I really do like the simple names. But probably because they are in English and not in Latin or Italian or whatever. LOL Yes, I agree quicksand definitely gives a super picture of how things can get more complicated.
