City of Vancouver's latest pesticide bylaw

Discussion in 'Garden Pest Management and Identification' started by jimweed, Dec 15, 2005.

  1. jimweed

    jimweed Active Member 10 Years

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  2. douglas

    douglas Active Member 10 Years

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    Hi Paul Interesting good to know

    There are quite a few items on that list that are kind of scary
    ie Laundry additives/wood / material preservatives?

    Also what does the city consider an "Infestation"?

    I can't help but wonder if a backpack sprayer would not qualify under the section " Pesticides in aerosol containers" ?

    Anyway I'll quit now before I get carried away about JohnQ public
    and Buddy in the brother in laws truck, with a mower, and the availabilty they have had over the years to purchase this stuff?

    Regards Doug
     
  3. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    It exists, and is called a "gardener" :-)
     
  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    We don't have UK's history of cheap, fully trained garden labor.
     
  5. Puddleton

    Puddleton Active Member 10 Years

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    It will be quite interesting to see what eventuates from the bylaws. I hope resident professionals in the region start documenting what pests,diseases and beneficials flourish.
    I would also be interested to know who Vancouver council engaged to provide the list of permitted substances
     
  6. KarinL

    KarinL Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I have never used a garden chemical in my garden in my life but consider this bylaw the world's stupidest response to the problematic overuse of chemicals. In the first place it is unenforceable, and such laws only train a population to ignore laws. In the second, it leaves people with no alternative, in some cases, but to break the law - how the heck DO you deal with certain gardening problems? It is, after all, comparatively easy still to get the stuff in neighbouring municipalities even if Vancouver garden centres no longer sell it. For those reasons I predict that chemical use in Vancouver will decrease negligeably if at all. Furthermore, because people will hide their use and buy outside the city, there will be no way of knowing how much is being used. Usage might even go up.

    Take my situation for example. I inherited a flowering quince shrub that was planted by some halfwit right on top of the water line. Not wanting to be ousted from half my yard by this prickly thug, I took it out, but the roots go halfway to China, as well as under my neighbour's driveway and the city sidewalk, and they sprout incessantly. Even were that not the case, the water line precludes using the bulldozer that is otherwise the most tempting solution. As a non-chemical user I have pretty much resigned myself to pulling suckers for the rest of my life, but anyone else living here would resort to chemicals - and the bylaw gives them no option besides breaking the law and using chemicals. "Trusting nature," as the fatuous language of the city's information page suggests, would leave a thicket of quince here obscuring the front door of my property and the next few in either direction.

    Democratic governments should ENABLE people, not disable them and then punish them for trying to control their own destinies. The joke above is not too far off the mark - instead of such a stupid bylaw, the city should have set up a workforce of trained gardeners who are available to homeowners to deal with the kinds of problems that normally send them scurrying for the chemicals.
     
  7. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Municipal funds instead being used to publicize the new rules and encourage cooperation could result in a significant reduction in usage. The quince can be starved out by regular cutting off of any new sprouts that appear.
     
  8. jimweed

    jimweed Active Member 10 Years

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    It can take less than 30ml's of killex to spot treat the lawn of an average 5000sq' lot in the City of Vancouver, for weed control. And theres only 180grams of 24-D in a 1000ml's of killex to begin with. This wouldn't even be enough herbicide to give a common ant a headache! More or less effect people or pets. And can that small amount really leach far into the ground before it breaks down? I really think there are bigger fish to fry in saving the environment. Some people do want to have a nice looking lawn.

    Which brings me back to an old tread, "whats worse for the environment" the 5grams of 24-D it takes per year to control weeds or the 40LBS of nitrogen based fertilizer it takes to fertilize the lawn per year?

    KarinL if you want to rid your Quince weed for real, let the sprouts get some foliage, find yourself some Amitrol-T, and spray as much of the foliage as you can, even scrape the bark back on any live trunks and spray there as well. Amitrol is highly
    translocative and should kill it all the way under the drive and walkways too. And rid it once and for all. Yes I read your not into spraying, but I just had to put in my two cents. Opps sry this would be breaking the law! Jim
     
  9. KarinL

    KarinL Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Well thank you Jimweed. Even if I decide to remain a law-abiding, environmentally conscientious gardener, it is at least nice to know of something that would be effective if I were to use it, maybe in case the quince is still growing when I become too decrepit to get out and pull suckers, and when getting sent to jail might be a fast track to better health care.... I have actually asked at some garden centres what would work and all I hear is Roundup, although I have read inauspicious reports of its effectiveness for woody growth. And I can't think of anything less environment-friendly than using chemicals that won't work, necessitating - if one were so inclined - multiple applications and ultimately the use of a second or third product.

    I mean, there's another problem that remains unaddressed by this bylaw: ignorant overuse. Most people are using fairly generic products, and I think often combined products, to deal with their problems. Furthermore, they're using unneeded products, like the fertilizer you've mentioned. Now the ignorant are not only still buying the "I dunno I'll try this" stuff, but also driving some distance to get it! Yaaay for the environment! I submit that the environment would be better served by gardeners being well informed and having the right products available for each job in the right quantity. Again, a posse of specialist gardeners who would bring the right product for the right job would be a much better solution. It would eliminate, among other things, the need to buy a whole bottle of something when you only need those 30 ml, and thus the huge volumes of unused Killex etc that sit on garage and tool shed shelves throughout the nation.

    Public education without a rational problem-solving framework and consistent enforcement, Ron_B, only makes a fool of government. With the leftovers on the shelf, no one likely to report you and nothing likely to happen if they do, and no knowledge of how else to tackle the problem, no public education program is going to be effective. It will only serve to make the converted more righteous, which never promotes harmony. Having said that, I haven't even officially been informed about this new bylaw directly by government yet, I've only heard it from a garden centre and here (and I checked the city website).

    I'd like to see a community that went to something like offering "free chemicals, expertly applied when appropriate," pitted against the "thou shalt not" model for overall chemical use. I bet the former uses less.
     
  10. bcgift52

    bcgift52 Active Member

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    Does 'City of Vancouver' encompass Burnaby and the rest of the Lower Mainland ? Another one of their fruitless endeavours. Brings to mind that wonderful ad 'hands in your pocket, hands in your pocket' !!
     
  11. pierrot

    pierrot Active Member 10 Years

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    The current pesticide bylaws only encompasses the following municipalities in the lower mainland
    City of Vancouver
    City of port moody
    District of North Vancouver
    District of West Vancouver
    And only apply to their municipal boundaries

    The major problem in my mind is the word Cosmetic!

    By what standard is cosmetic measured?
    What level of tolerance should someone have before it is no longer cosmetic?

    I believe that the only people that can ban the sale of a chemical in Canada is the PMRA (Pesticide Management Regulatory Authority). This is done by removing the registration of the product e.g. the registration for home use of Diazinon was removed in 2002.

    If it has a PCP Act Registration Number it is still the legally accepted and registered control measure for a particular product.

    At all times we must practice the least toxic method of pest control suggest organic alternatives, biologicals, companion planting and physical removal before any chemical is sold. Sell the chemical as a matter of last resort!!

    Remember organic control methods can also be just as deadly as chemical methods e.g. rotenone.


    the city of burnaby puts out an education pamphlet and has held several classes

    http://www.burnaby.ca/cityhall/departments/engnrn/engnrn_whtshp/engnrn_whtshp_wrkshp.html

    There also is a booklet from the GVRD
    http://www.gvrd.bc.ca/water/pdfs/NaturalYardCare.pdf

    that attempts the education route!

    I agree there is a need to reduce and remove the "spray mentality" but just to ban a product does not put it away not does it stop the use.

    The bylaw puts the retail clerk in an awkard spot they are not the enforcers of the municipalities bylaws nor should they be asked for. If they are doing their job well according to the pesticide dispenser license training theu should have they should be at all times practicing the least toxic method of pest control suggest organic alternatives, biologicals, companion planting and physical removal before any chemical is sold. Sell the chemical as a matter of last resort!!

    Juts IMHO

    Pierrot
     
  12. Erica

    Erica Active Member

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    Glad I live in Abbotsford where the air is thick with herbicide around growing season. JJ!
    But I'd be nowhere with out my Round-Up.
     
  13. dmurchie

    dmurchie Member

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    I could provide a list of horrific applications or proposed applications of chemicals I have encountered, but I am not convinced the city of Vancouver was solely concerned with chemical zealous gardeners killing local streams, plants, beneficial insects or even human health.


    The city of Vancouver, owns the soil beneath the house. When you plant trees, you plant it in their dirt. If they allow you to pour chemicals into the soil, and that soil later causes harm, the harmed can sue the city.

    I don't have a legal reference at hand but here is some relevant text from the Courier regarding the soil contamination issue at gas station sites:

    "Vancouver is one of a few municipalities in the province—New Westminster is another—that owns not only the surface of the ground, but the soil beneath it. That means subterranean contamination brings a liability risk."

    From:


    http://www.vancourier.com/issues01/05101/news/05101N1.html
     
  14. Anne58

    Anne58 Active Member

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    I can certainly relate to that! I was doing some auditing work in the Abbotsford area about 2 years ago and was shock to find that the blackberries that grow along the ditches had none of the familiar little critters hiding between the seeds or along the plant end of the berry. The berries were also very large - fertilizer run-off from the fields I suspect . . . .
     
  15. Durgan

    Durgan Contributor 10 Years

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    Wow! That is an all encompassing by law. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

    Pretty soon people will only be able to get a good dose of "cides" from the fruit and vegetables they ingest from the commercial growers.

    I suggest growing large fields of one crop is impossible without the use of many "cides". Even in the old days people used various nasties to control insects. The good old days are mostly a figment of peoples imaginations. For example, I remember when everybody used Paris Green to control the Colorado Potato Beatle. Look it up just for fun.

    Fruit would be a worn eaten mess without the"cides".

    Durgan.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2007
  16. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    I wonder if it would be fair to say that with the advent of biocides that the hybridization and plant breeding of food crops steered away from producing pest-resistant varieties to other qualities.

    I've been quite happy with the organic, as-local-as-possible fruits and veggies I've been eating the past two years (not exclusively, though - I still purchase non-organic fruit on a fairly frequent basis).
     

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