Citrus growing discussion - a few questions.

Discussion in 'Citrus' started by mr.shep, Oct 31, 2004.

  1. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    After being involved in a few threads dealing with
    Citrus being grown indoors I think it is time for
    someone to ask some open questions and let all
    of you join in and discuss the following..

    How many Citrus and what types of Citrus are true
    grown from seed?

    Why is it that Citrus grown indoors have a propensity
    to not produce fruit?

    Why is high humidity a rather serious, potentially
    harmful consequence to growing Citrus indoors?

    What is the difference between a wholesale nursery
    and a retail nursery for buying Citrus?

    Why is it that Citrus from US East Coast nurseries
    or nurseries East of the Rocky Mountains cannot
    ship Citrus into California?

    What are some nursery sources for Citrus in Canada?

    Why are California nurseries hesitant to ship
    Citrus into Canada?

    Which Citrus can be grown outdoors in the ground
    or grown outdoors in a container in Canada?

    Which Citrus can be grown indoors and still produce
    fruit in Canada? What prerequisites must apply in
    order for the tree to set fruit?

    The above questions can be expanded upon as I do
    not plan to be the moderator for this thread. I may
    come back in and post some of my own views at a
    later date. For now, I think a general and perhaps
    inclusive thread dealing with Citrus, being grown
    principally in Canada and elsewhere also, may be
    something worthwhile for us to openly discuss.
     
  2. Wes North Van

    Wes North Van Active Member 10 Years

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    Citrus in Canada

    The experts in this are Bob and Verna Duncan of Sydney BC. They have been growing numerous varieties of citrus at their home on Vancouver Island.
    I have had success growing meyer lemons outside. Lemons do not require a great deal of heat to ripen their fruit, which suits Vancouver's climate.
    My tree now has numerous lemons on it right now.
    I am located in lower North Vancouver. I have attached a pic of some of the ripe lemons.
     

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  3. Ralph Walton

    Ralph Walton Active Member 10 Years

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    Was this tree grown from seed? What was your source? How old is it? I'm already thinking about the lemon meringue pies!
    Ralph
     
  4. Wes North Van

    Wes North Van Active Member 10 Years

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    Lemons

    I bought this tree from Cedar Rim nurseries in Langley BC, 3 years ago. It has never been inside since I have owned it. I do protect it on cold clear nights with a comforter. Last year on those freezing cold three days I added a string of Christmas lights and wrapped them around the tree. This seemed to work fine.
    It is 3 feet tall and about the same in width. I probably have close to a hundred lemons on it, all in various sizes. It flowers all year but produces more in the spring, summer and fall.
    I also have a smaller one about 8" tall and it already has some small lemons on it. You are better off getting a cutting of an already fruiting tree or buying one with flowers or lemons on it already. To grow one from seed can take years or it may never flower.

    Good luck and happy pie eating.
     
  5. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    Hi, WesNV. I'm both surprised and encouraged by the photo of your lemon tree: Surprised because I thought it was too cold here for lemons; encouraged because that means it may also do well for me indoors. Up until now I've been growing a couple of trees that were started from seed. They're doing well but won't be producing fruit anytime soon if ever. The calamondin I bought earlier this year has shown so much promise that I decided to add a few more varieties from Monrovia to my collection. The waiting begins now that they've been pruned and repotted. I should have done this sooner - they're such wonderful plants.

    Ummm...meringue pie...arrgggg.
     
  6. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

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    I line in Lynn Valey area of Norh Vancouver near Highway 1 zone 8. I would like
    to grow some citrus the improved meyor seems like the obvious but ive been told that
    the Nagami kumquate and the Owari Satsuma are also pretty hardy. a grower i was in touch with uses a "C13 cuban" root stock he says that it is hardier than the Trifoliate
    root stock but it is not deciduous like trifoliate any thoughts?
    Has anyone tried growing these?
     
  7. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    Kumquats and mandarins may be hardier but they have a high heat requirement for fruit development. The lemon appears to be a better choice. Some North Shore nurseries carry the Eureka lemon; you may want to consider that one as well.
     
  8. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I am a little confused here as the Cuban rootstocks
    are being used mainly for disease resistance such
    as Tristeza, not for hardiness factors.

    Also, is there really a zone 8 in Vancouver? If so,
    then you can grow a variety of Citrus outdoors.

    Our old Meyer Lemon on its own roots, cutting
    grown, was transplanted from San Pedro, California,
    in Los Angeles County to Merced County in 1965.
    The tree was 12 years old then. The first Winter
    in the ground we had temperatures down to zero
    (have not have them since either) and the Lemon
    tree survived. It got chewed up and we had to
    prune it back quite a ways but I think it says a lot
    for how well some Citrus can handle cold better
    than we give them credit for. No way could a
    Lisbon or a Eureka have survived zero temperatures
    unless they have been in the ground for some time
    and we protected them from the cold some way
    somehow.

    Jim
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2005
  9. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

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    mr shep. Thanks for the reply. I probably 1 to 3 miles from a true zone 8 so every 5 years we might be a 7b this past winter we went to - 10C (14f) for 2 nights and only 2 weeks with below freezing temperatures last year we had 3 nights with -15c(5f) but that hasn't happened for 15 years I have bananas ( protected) and 6 types of palms.Since i wrote the querry I have purchased both a Eureka and a Improved meyor 1 and 2 gal respectfully- both grown by minrovia growers in California. I will keep them potted unill
    they are more established 2 or 3 years then try them outside- next to my house with a s/east exposure. Unfortunatly we do not have hot summers only two or 3 weeks with temperatures above (80F) 27c. so hopfully that will be sufficient .... we will see.
    what about other edible citrus for my climate ? Any thoughts?
    Check out www.tropic.ca and check out this guys Bananas - he lives about 20miles south of me.
    Regards, Greg
     
  10. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    'Improved Meyer' Lemon appears to be the best choice for our area if I'm reading Table 1 of this document correctly. 'Eureka' will need more protection. Keep in mind sufficient heat is required for flowering and fruit production in the selection of citrus. Perhaps mr.shep can expanded on this.
     
  11. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    For you guys in Canada I think plant availability
    at the nursery level is your current dilemma.
    Not many forms of Citrus are able to come in
    to Canada and those that can come in from the
    US will predominately be from just a handful
    of West Coast sources. The same has been
    true for years but the East Coast cannot buy
    from us out here as easily now and then ship
    the Citrus into Canada. It is better for the
    nurseries in Canada that want to carry Citrus
    to buy direct from the wholesale grower here,
    then have the plant material "phytoed", as some
    people call it, then have the plants come in.
    Nurseries in Canada are not going to know
    what their customers really want to try to
    grow and it is with this area that you guys
    can help them. Getting plants to come in
    from Four Winds (true dwarf Citrus) or
    Ivanhoe brand Citrus (mostly semi-dwarf)
    will have to be done by a nursery ordering
    a quantity of Citrus all at one time and
    agreeing to have the Citrus tested and later
    certified and then the Citrus can come across
    the border. Much easier for a bona fide
    nursery to have the tests done here rather
    than an individual have to pay to have the
    tests conducted and then drive the plants
    in across the border. If you guys want some
    of the exotic types of Citrus such as the Etrog
    or a Kaffir Lime there is a way to get it done
    but if you want a nursery to do it for you it
    will probably require you guys to have some
    buyers for these plants as soon as the nursery
    gets them in. Better still if all of the pre-orders
    are spoken for as then the nursery can fill your
    combined order along with theirs and have less
    expenses but more so a guarantee that the nursery
    will not have to hold these plants for a long while.
    Which is why the nurseries will be hesitant to order
    Citrus that they may not be able to sell rather quick.

    I think you guys may want to just come out with
    the varieties of Citrus you want to grow and then
    we can go from there. Most forms will be quite
    risky to try to grow outdoors. Some will balk at
    being grown indoors and others not so much and
    then you will have several that can be grown in a
    greenhouse. You still will want these plants to be
    portable in that they can go from a house or a
    greenhouse to escape the cold to being moved
    outdoors to get plenty of light, warmth and to get
    some bee activity to pollinate the flowers for you.
    I just don't think you will get good pollinization
    trying to grow two Kaffir Limes indoors hoping
    for better pollination of the flowers without bee
    activity. Maybe you guys know something I don't
    but I have not seen many bees flying around doing
    their work for us in a greenhouse set up. I have seen
    it attempted before with Citrus but with varied,
    mixed results.

    With the heat requirements that some Citrus
    may have to have I just don't envision trying
    to grow a Mexican Lime in Canada and be
    all that successful doing it. I am not saying
    it cannot be done as you can pull it off if you
    know when that tree needs warmth and when
    it needs some cooling for the fruit to yield
    both the color to the skin as well as have a
    percent sugar to give this Lime its characteristic
    sweet aroma and sweet and tart taste. I think
    the Bearss Lime will be easier for you to grow.
    The Rangpur Lime is easier still but it is not a
    true Lime. For Lemons, the Meyer and the
    Ponderosa are the hardiest but they are both
    hybrids, so you are not going to have a true
    Lemon but you will have two plants that are
    excellent at what they are supposed to be.

    Below is a modified list of Citrus that Monrovia
    has available from their web site.

    http://www.monrovia.com/monroviaweb...a68782c1f151c19e882568740066bb5c!OpenDocument

    Mexican Thornless Lime
    Dwarf Lisbon Lemon
    Fukumoto Navel Orange
    Dancy Tangerine
    Kara Mandarin Orange
    Marrs Valencia Orange
    Bearss Seedless Lime
    Owari Satsuma Mandarin Orange
    Moro Blood Orange
    Washinton Navel Orange
    Trovita Orange
    Minneola Tangelo
    Cara Cara Pink Navel Orange
    Variegated Calamondin Orange
    Dwarf Washington Navel Orange
    Pink Variegated Eureka Lemon
    Dwarf Redblush Grapefruit
    Nagami Kumquat
    Campbell Valencia Orange
    Cocktail Pummelo
    Dwarf Lane Late Navel Orange
    Meyer Improved Lemon
    Lisbon Lemon
    Dwarf Bearss Seedless Lime
    Dwarf Campbell Valencia Orange
    Eureka Lemon
    Redblush Grapefruit
    Clementine Mandarin Orange

    Below is the Four Winds variety list from their
    web site.

    http://www.fourwindsgrowers.com/variety_list.html

    Oranges

    Cara Cara (Pink) Navel Orange
    Late Lane Navel
    Robertson Navel
    Shamouti (Jaffa/Palestine)
    Trovita
    Valencia
    Washington Navel
    Moro (Blood)
    Sanquinella (Blood)
    Chinotto Sour (Myrtle-Leaf)
    Seville Sour
    Bergamot

    Mandarins / Tangerines

    Dancy Tangerine
    Owari Satsuma
    Clementine (Algerian)
    Murcott (Honey)

    Lemons

    Eureka
    Lisbon
    Improved Meyer Lemon
    Ponderosa
    Variegated Pink Lemon

    Limes

    Bearss Seedless (Tahiti/Persian)
    Mexican (Key)
    Kaffir (Kieffer/Thai/Wild)
    Palestine Sweet Lime
    Rangpur

    Grapefruit

    Oro Blanco
    Rio Red

    Kumquats

    Nagami Kumquat
    Meiwa Kumquat
    Indio Mandarinquat
    Eustis Limequat

    Exotics

    Calamondin - (Kalamansi; Philippine lime)
    Variegated Calamondin
    Fingered Citron Buddha's Hand
    Etrog Citron (Ethrog)
    Minneola Tangelo

    Jim
     
  12. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    You know it'll be a challenge to find Kaffir Lime when you're steered towards the stacks of dolomite lime when you ask for it. 8-D Etrog elicits similar blank looks. I actually located a source for the lime in eastern Canada but the price was in the triple digits - not in my budget.

    With a little persistence most of Monrovia's citrus varieties can be found in my area. There appears to be a second supplier (having a more limited distribution) whose plants are also grown in Visalia, CA. Their identity is unknown due to a lack of a company name on the plant labels and containers.

    Jim,
    1. Are you saying Four Winds Growers also ship to the Vancouver area? If that's the case then there's hope in getting the exotic varieties by tracking down the retailers they supply.
    2. Do you know when Monrovia usually update their website with next year's offerings? I'd like to be able to contact my local nursery to see if they can order the varieties that I want.
    3. Does Kaffir Lime need help with pollination more so than other citrus varieties? I've noted my Calamondin produces many fruits without any help at all.​
     
  13. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    If a well known or established nursery were to want
    a quantity of Citrus from Four Winds and the nursery
    will pay to have the Citrus certified so they can come
    into Canada, then there is a chance that Four Winds will
    ship into Canada. The problem is on the Canadian end
    with the certificates. What the West Coast nurseries
    will not do and I don’t blame them one bit is ship the
    plants and then have then placed under quarantine with
    the risk that some plants may perish or go sour during
    the wait. Who is liable if that happens? Either way it
    is a loser to the grower. The grower cannot be fully
    responsible for the plants once they are shipped but
    there are some grower nurseries that will feel obligated
    to replace any lost plants, then not ever ship to Canada
    ever again under those same guidelines.

    It ends up being bad for the grower's reputation. The
    way to solve that problem is for the Canadian nursery
    to offer to let the plants stay here, have them tested
    and certified and then the Canadian nursery makes
    arrangements to have the plants come in without
    further delay or the Canadian nursery can drive the
    plants in if they want. Sorry, if I made it seem that an
    individual can buy from Four Winds and do the same
    thing as a nursery can. It will depend on the nursery
    and their reputation if Four Winds might consider
    doing such a thing. I cannot speak for them but they
    may yield to shipping if everything can be streamlined
    as to when the plants are shipped and when they will
    arrive to their destinations in Canada. The health and
    condition of the plants once they arrive to the buyer
    nursery in Canada will be the make or break issue.
    Some nurseries here have shipped before to Canada
    and will not do it again period, don't even ask them
    to again. The money for a few plants is not worth
    the grief from word of mouth negatives later if
    something does not go according to plan. It is
    easier for the buyer nursery to bring in the plants
    themselves after they have been certified clean
    which will not be even be an issue with Four
    Winds Citrus stock.

    Usually any updates in Monrovia's web site come
    later in the year from what I've seen. Does not
    always hold true though for certain plants but for
    Citrus I bet it will.

    I've read a report online that told of them buying
    two Kaffir Limes to get good pollinizing and then
    got good fruit set on both trees. I am not so sure a
    second plant is needed but with several forms of
    Citrus that it does not hurt to have a second tree
    blooming whether it is a Lemon or a Mandarin
    blooming at the same time as the target tree is
    blooming. Here, we get helped by the Fruit Trees
    blooming when some of our Citrus are in bloom.
    There is enough pollen around to be shared by the
    bees but if you don't have any other trees that may
    be blooming, then a second Citrus may just prove
    rather handy.

    There are two other Citrus wholesale growers in
    the Visalia area. One specializes in standards with
    some dwarf types and the other specializes in semi-
    dwarfs, dwarfs and some standards. Both nurseries
    have been around long enough that many nurseries
    have purchased Citrus from them for quite a while.
    I bought two Blood Oranges (Moro and Sanguinelli)
    for the misses yesterday that came from one of them
    from a local retail nursery I've dealt with for several
    years, 15 years in all. Now I have the misses wanting
    a Kaffir Lime and a pink fleshed Lemon after she saw
    the information from the Four Winds web site. I’ll
    get them for her and we will grow them in containers.

    Jim
     
  14. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

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    I E mailed Four Winds growers they have not had much luck exporting into Canada. that being said, last week I contacted Canadian Food inspection Agency in Burnaby, they advised
    that Citrus requires a phytosanitary (sp?)certificate .I was hoping to import a couple of trees as "house plants" but to do things legitimate I dont think that would fly. The Inspector suggested that
    it normally cost around $20 for certifiction. This is done by USDA inspector at the nursery. the certificate is shipped with the plants. He also suggested that a USDA inspector probably visits the nursury on a regular basis anyway. You could have the plants delivered to Pt.Roberts Washington there are several locations that you can have parcels shipped to so there would be less delay in recieving the plants.
    Food For thought.... There is a minimal service charge for their service .
    Also, which is will work for citrus shipping bare root or with roots ( or does it make a difference in the long run?)
    Try and make heads and tails of this government site ....
    http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/plaveg/internat/internate.shtml

    Greg
     
  15. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    Greg, some time ago I found a CFIA document that may actually be useful. Houseplants imported in-person MAY be exempt from the documentation under CFIA directive D-01-03. There are of course certain restrictions one of which is the plants are not to be planted outside (which you would like to do). I'd like to hear from forum members who have made use of this exemption.

    With regards to Pt. Roberts, are you saying there are companies that will receive goods on your behalf for a fee? If so, what type of business is it and approximately how much do they charge?
     
  16. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

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    Junglekeeper
    There are three. I dont have the names handy but I will get the contacts and post them.
    (maybe Fedex or Mailboxes etc or companies like that)
    For a small fee (I am assuming depending on size...) less than $5.00 you get the product delivered to the company in your name at their address and they call you when it has arrived. You bring it accross the border. A friend recently had a transmision from a car
    delivered there and another friend gets his model train stuff delivered there too.

    as far as house plants....when I called CFIA they said citrus did not recieve the
    houseplant exemption - unless you were moving here and they were part of your household effects. I have not actually tried bringing any plants accross the border.
    I would like to hear from anyone who has.....legally.... Aahem...!
    Greg
     
  17. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    All discussions on the import of plants need to stay on the straight and narrow.

    As frustrating as it may be (and yes, the botanical garden staff and researchers get frustrated sometimes, too - I've seen arrived shipments of dead plants), the rules are in place for a reason (even if the reason conflicts with common sense).
     
  18. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    The import restrictions have their purpose. Most
    of the problems were due to people feeling they
    could bypass the quarantine once the plants entered
    Canada. If the proper steps were taken before the
    plants were shipped then a lot of plants would not
    have reached their destinations in either poor shape
    or the plants arrived deceased. We've had that happen
    to us also from plants coming in from other countries
    in which we did not take proper measures to safeguard
    the safety of the plants before the plants were to be
    shipped.

    I am in agreement with the current import restrictions
    that Canada has implemented. All it takes is one
    unverified or one non certified shipment that can
    cause irreparable harm to existing plants. People that
    have seen the effects of foreign plant diseases, insects
    and invasive plants know all too well that the import
    restrictions are imposed to help protect the plants that
    we already have. It is not so much the specialty plants
    that governments worry about the most, it is the native
    plants. Native plants introduced to a foreign invader
    just may not have any natural build up in resistance.
    Think of the impact of what a virulent, new strain of
    avian influenza could do to humans that have no
    antibody resistance to it. Plants are no different than
    humans in that regard.

    Nurseries ordering in plants from other countries
    are held accountable in some way whereas a single
    individual may not be. I am not advocating anyone
    working around the current Canadian import rules,
    I am saying there is a way to work with it and still
    maintain an integrity that can satisfy all sides of the
    equation.

    Jim
     
  19. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    Back to the drawing board. Too bad citrus does not qualify for the exemption.

    Greg,
    Which citrus varieties are you looking for? I may have come across them during my search.

    Jim,
    Do you know the answer to question #3?
     
  20. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    The answer to your question is what I thought.
    No, the Kaffir Lime does not need a pollinizer
    but since the trees have such sparse fruit set it
    may be better to have a second one to get a larger
    sized crop.

    I'll let out a secret that may work for you. It is
    not uncommon for a nursery here to pick up
    plants from another nursery to fill a pre-order,
    even if the nursery that is selling to Canada does
    not grow that plant. In other words, there is a way
    that even Monrovia can fill an order for the Kaffir
    Lime sold to a nursery in Canada, providing the
    nursery makes it worth Monrovia's while to locate
    some Kaffir Limes for them to co-join an already
    placed order. Monrovia did not get to where the
    are without bending over backwards sometimes to
    help their retail affiliate nurseries fill their customers
    plant needs. This is also a subject area that cannot
    be randomly abused either, especially more so at
    this particular time. There are some definite, limiting
    factors as to how and which plants can come into
    Canada after the on site certification process has been
    completed here. This is no time for a nursery to make
    an order and then back out of it later is what I am
    saying!

    Jim
     
  21. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    It's nice to know how things work. The nurseries that I've talked to order their citrus only once a year for delivery in early spring. I'll bring up Kaffir Lime at that time if I haven't found a source by then. As you suggested, a nursery may be more accommodating if they know they have a committed order for a number of plants. Thanks, Jim.

    1. Are there other self-fertile citrus varieties that need this extra help?
    2. Can we achieve the same effect by grafting a branch from another tree to the host?
     
  22. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

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    Junglekeeper
    I would like to try a Trifoliate root & Meyer lemon cross and a Owari Satsuma (possibly
    with trifoliate root stock) Im not sure a beast like that is available?
    I have some
    concerns with winter leaf damage if i don't protect it well enough or like happens around here we get a cold snap (15 deg f )then sudden warm temperatures (say 55deg f) which may trigger premature new growth (trifoliate is deciduous) HMMM not sure...
    any thoughts?
    I am also want to locate a Palm (in canada) - Serenoa Repens ( saw palmetto ) rated Zone 6)
    Thanks, Greg
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2005
  23. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    Greg,

    There were quite a few Improved Meyer Lemons (on citrange rootstock) from Monrovia but it doesn't sound like that's what you're looking for. I glanced over the standards that I came across so it's possible there may have been a mandarin or two amongst them. Check with Cedar Rim Nursery in Langley and Triple Tree Nursery in Maple Ridge. There were about a half dozen or so standards at each nursery.

    If you haven't already done so, try contacting:

    1. Monrovia to get a list of local retailers they shipped that mandarin to this year;
    2. Pacific Northwest Palm and Exotic Plant Society regarding the palm. They may be able to give you leads.

    Hope this helps. Jim would be the one to ask for cultural advice.
     
  24. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    Are there other self-fertile citrus varieties that need this
    extra help?


    A lot depends on whether we want a true dwarf, a semi
    dwarf or a standard sized tree. From my experience
    some dwarf types do not produce as much fruit as a
    semi dwarf can and some semi dwarfs do not produce
    as much fruit year in and year out that a standard tree
    will. A lot also depends on our growing conditions and
    if we have these trees indoors, in a greenhouse or a
    solarium or planted in the ground. A major factor also
    is how much bee activity we will get.

    A Mandarin or a Lemon in bloom at the same time
    as the Kaffir Lime should suffice for pollinizing or for
    being a bee attractant. I am not saying you have
    to have two Kaffir Limes to get the job done but
    a Kaffir Lime by itself is probably not going to
    produce any bumper crops which can be a blessing
    at times but can also be a drawback if we want
    ample fruit from that particular Lime.

    Here is how I am going to play it. I will be getting
    2 Kaffir Limes, one for me and one for the misses.
    I'll have mine in a container real close to my old
    Meyer Lemon, partly so I can have the Lime under
    cover when it is cold and yet close to the Lemon
    as the Lemon will attract bees. I am playing with
    the thought of having a Mexican Lime as I've
    not ever grown one. The misses wants a Bearss
    Lime, a sweet Lime, so she will have two Limes
    blooming about the same time which should give
    her a better chance to have decent crops of Limes
    on both trees. Both Limes of hers will be dwarfs.
    Ideally I prefer semi dwarfs but I may not be able
    to buy a semi dwarf Kaffir Lime so it seems I'll
    have to go with a dwarf also which is okay by me.

    My old dwarf Honey (Murcott) Mandarin planted
    in the ground for 22 years was grafted on trifoliate
    rootstock. Mine seldom shows any leaf damage,
    even left unprotected with temps down in the teens.
    If the leaves were to be nipped by the cold or frozen
    due to real cold then I would want a warm spell soon
    so that I will get some new growth to regenerate. The
    only time I would be concerned with new growth is if
    it turned warm as the new growth is emerging and then
    get a real cold snap to kill the new growth. Greg, just
    get a standard Owari Satsuma on trifoliate rootstock
    and give it a whirl. I have a feeling that Junglekeeper
    is going to grow Citrus indoors or in a greenhouse and
    then place them outdoors when the temperatures are
    warmer, which is probably how I would work it if I
    lived in Vancouver and wanted to grow Citrus. I
    would not have them outdoors year round, just too
    risky a proposition.

    Can we achieve the same effect by grafting a branch
    from another tree to the host?


    Years ago in the 60's this was a real hot with Fruit Trees
    to have Apples and Peaches with up to three varieties
    grafted onto one tree. For a few years it worked okay
    but it did not take long for one of the grafts to be
    over taken by one of the other grafts and then we
    had two varieties. Another issue was that the second
    graft worked well to help pollinize the other graft but
    they did not complement each other in that one side
    of the tree had good fruit set and the other side of the
    tree only had a few fruit. What was a standard tree in
    the nursery trade died out rather quick when people
    paid extra to have the three grafted varieties and in
    about 5-6 years were left with either one variety or
    two but one variety seldom produced much fruit.
    I've seen the same thing for production Plums in
    which some growers cut off the old Friar Plum grafts
    back to the base of the tree, made some side grafts
    with Methley and Santa Rosa and in a few years of
    production did away with one of the grafted sections.
    Why? The trees were lopsided as one side grew
    much faster and filled out much quicker than the
    other side did. What made things bad was that the
    Santa Rosa, which was the pollinizer, side would be
    the faster grower when the growers really wanted the
    Methley Plums to pick and ship.

    I think with Citrus you can try to graft a section onto
    an existing tree but you may not be happy with the
    results if what I've seen in Crabapples, Dogwoods,
    and the ones above hold true. The only success
    story seems to be the Flowering Peaches as the
    three grafted varieties for flower color such as a
    Peppermint Stick, a Double White and a midseason
    Double Red seem to have done well. Although they
    are pretty much limited to being grown around here
    and in very limited supply now as bare root trees.

    Jim
     
  25. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    Location:
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    Jim, I think you may have just provided the answer to another thread (Citrus Varieties at Retail | UBC Botanical Garden Forums) that I started some time ago. It seems reasonable to sell semi-dwarfs (on citrange rootstock) in an area where plants are likely to be grown indoors where they need to be small and yet still produce fruit. These plants would then be a compromise between size and fruit production! What do you think?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015

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