Looks like Mr. Tafler was able to find such a person for his article which appeared in the May 12, 2007 edition of The Globe and Mail: Oranges and lemons, north of the 49th. Bob and Verna Duncan of Sidney are featured. I found this quote interesting: Here is a related article also written by Mr. Tafler: Will B.C. be seen as California North?.
I think several people in this forum will be instrumental in Citrus becoming more mainstream in British Columbia. The hard parts will be getting certain Citrus to adjust and adapt to any climate change diversity such as abrupt cooling after a spell of unseasonal warming. This can send some of the in ground Citrus into chaos but they might be able to endure it. Hard to say for sure but I am being optimistic that in time through adaptation they can better withstand the proposed climatic mood swings. The area of most concern still will not be the warming it will still be the cool daytime and nighttime temperatures and the number of days that will be cold with these trees in the ground. The current day Citrus that are a little more tolerant to cold may not be the best available for commercial use later on but I might be wrong on that as there are other uses for them other than for fresh eating. At this time I find it doubtful that all areas of Southwestern B.C. can effectively grow a wide array of Citrus in ground outdoors but can grow Citrus in ground indoors. I think Millet and Citrus Joe from the CitrusNorth forum are two of the more prominent people to talk to in that regard. Growing Citrus in ones home and move them outdoors when they can is where more people in the Pacific Northwest will try to do more of but I just do not see them advancing growing seedlings from store bought fruit as their answer. They are going to have to invest in grafted forms or if they can get them plants on their own roots but for most Citrus the current day selected seedling rootstock allows for better overall root growth and root stability either in ground or grown in containers at the present time. We may hear of the success stories of some trees outdoors but I am not so certain these trees are in ground year round but rather are in containers that can be moved around to help protect them from the coldest early morning temperatures and for the duration of the cold. I think it is time to show this link in this forum now. I believe what is shown is reasonably self explanatory but keep in mind the dates and the historical perspective when all of this was going on when Germany and the Netherlands, among other European countries, were much warmer back then to allow them to grow Citrus in ground outdoors and grow these plants in large portable containers to be moved about when need be to protected locations from the cold and the more difficult aspect for the plant to deal with and adapt to, the cold winds. CITRUS AND ORANGERIES As to Will B.C. be seen as California North, the answer is no, not until there has been some dramatic improvement made in the vigor as well as the cold tolerance of our current day rootstocks and a change in attitude towards what to do about pests and diseases that will or may infect these plants. The politics of the region, the current day attitudes of people, along with cheaper fresh market imports from other countries makes the notion that the Western part of Canada can compete on a global Citrus growing stage rather doubtful. That is not to say that Citrus growers cannot sell their fruit locally and to other parts of Canada and as a result can take a bite out of the Citrus import commodities coming into Canada and the supermarkets but will the politicians let it happen and not be and act subservient to the interests of the local growers and look out for the overall welfare of the end consumers? I think In the end it will not be a matter of what is right or what is wrong for people, it will come down to money and who gets it that will determine if the Citrus growers stand a chance of having this vision of growing Citrus on a global scale in 70 years time succeed or not. I just do not feel at this time that the mindset of the higher ups (telcos as a good friend of mine from Alberta, whom was chased out by government regulations of being an upstanding diversified Grain grower for many years, likes to call them), changing their attitudes and their ways of doing things long enough to let it come to fruition. Lets hope I am wrong about this.. Jim
A local enthusiast I spoke with has visions of planting groves inground, under glass year-round. I believe this is the method used by Millet. As you noted trees could be containerized and moved about but that may mean having to prune them for size which would greatly reduce the production of fruit. I was reminded of this by Millet's account of his tour of the University Of California's citrus variety collection documented in this thread in an external forum. The trees depicted in the (CITRUS AND ORANGERIES) link appear to be relatively small; it makes me wonder how much fruit they would bear. I think any discussion as to what could be in 70 year's time would be pure speculation as there are simply too many variables involved. Nevertheless it is interesting to consider the possibilities. If indeed the warming trend continues as suggested, I suspect there will be much change to society and in ways unforeseen.
I've felt for a while now that Citrus can be grown in an atrium or in a greenhouse in British Columbia and can be done in a commercial manner. Almost 30 years ago I mentioned to people in Iowa that they could be growing fresh market Tomatoes right in a greenhouse. We have access to the technology that even someone in Siberia can be growing Tahiti Limes underground but growing Citrus that require bee pollination or a pollinizer tree will be a problem without some control over atmospherics. You are growing these indoors inside a home and not being able to put them outside. I look at what you are trying to do to be the most difficult to achieve success with but people in other parts of Canada, such as Ontario were doing it years ago inside their homes most of the time to all of the time and were able to produce enough fruit to make themselves happy with their endeavors. You can also be in a position to have fruit that you will be rather pleased to have but there are some drawbacks, limitations to what you are doing as well but you have already taken them into consideration I think if we also think in terms of growing Citrus in ground and in a greenhouse in British Columbia that some progressive people that can see for themselves that it can be done with success, that a reasonable conclusion can be made later that others will also join in and want to try their hand at being successful at it. I did not write or infer that several areas of the Pacific Northwest do not have the potential in time to grow lots of Citrus indoors in some manner or fashion. I think it will be a trendy kind of thing to do as more and more people see and read through this Citrus forum and other online Citrus forums how others have been able to do it, pull it off in some cases. It just requires a little interest and initiative. I think what Mr. Tafler was really signaling is that with the successes of others that realize that Citrus can be grown in B.C. that other people and perhaps some of the institutions wanting to grow Citrus in B.C. may have the ability to expand almost exponentially thanks to the efforts of a few people that have been and/or are growing these plants, along with others in this forum that are doing more than just a passing attempt now to grow these plants. Once a few more people have some successes growing these plants in the ground, in the home, in a greenhouse and in an atrium watch what will happen soon afterwards as these plants gain more popularity. There will be several people that will have interest and will want to be growing these plants in B.C. and other areas of Canada as well. Then in time there may not be any need to buy some of the current day misnamed fruit coming in from one principal area but only bring in the fruit that is or has been historically popular that may have a problem growing in Canada and do much of the growing of the fresh eating Citrus yourselves. I’d be a little euphoric about the prospects of this happening also. The way some of our dwarfing rootstocks have been keeping some of the Citrus down to size that I think growing dwarf forms such as grafted or budded onto Flying Dragon and perhaps Cuban and selected trifoliate form rootstocks and other forms as well, have tremendous potential for both the home grower and the smaller scale commercial grower. I think 10-12 foot ceilings will be ample. We also have to think in terms of how we prune these trees as a topping of the tree every now and then can cause a reduction in fruit in practice but pinching back some of the top growth every year may not have the same reductions. There is a huge difference between pruning the top back a foot or more and pinching or a light trimming back the top back to three inches all the way across the top. We still will get ample flowering in the middle to the upper portions of the trees is what we've seen on our in ground Citrus that we may prune the tops to better shape the trees every three to four years. Another thing to consider is that plants in the ground can be pruned back and still bear a decent crop whereas trees grown in containers especially housed under shade cloth can have tremendous reduction in the trees fruiting ability once they have their tops either pinched back or are top pruned. As for UCR, they should expect yield reductions by how they fertilize their plants with direct injections with every watering. They have to cut back the top growth to allow for new root growth that they have effectively weakened and to some extent have chemically pruned off in a restricted space container. The area of concern is what happens when those trees are planted in the ground due to their practices that they are more likely going to "just sit there" in the ground for up to three years, perhaps longer in some isolated cases and have little to next to nothing for allover new growth. The root initiation has been stymied by them and then when the plant is out in the ground the roots will have to do more work than they are capable of doing, thus the entire plant can be in peril to an invader or to a pathogen until they do get some new root growth and later on because of it new shoot growth. Should they want to plant those trees they will also want to top them soon after planting to trigger the roots to grow so they won’t just sit in the ground. The eventual crop has to be put on the backburner until these plants start to grow and adapt to their new locations. I think at the time the artist renditions of the trees that it did not matter to people that the fruit may have seemed small in size by comparison to the fruit on the actual trees. Then again that many years ago much of the Oranges were smaller in size than many of them are today. Jim
.... or perhaps even more significantly, the under-stated impact of climate change, i.e. the increased frequency of extreme warm and cold temperature events (the low temperature events being the deciding factor in this case, of course). I don't think "global warming" will ever allow for commercial citrus fruit growing in BC simply because climate models predict that the low temperatures will get lower and all time low temperature records will be more common during the winter months. This will kill off any in ground citrus tress that are attempted to be grown without protection.
More exposure for the Duncans in the May 17, 2007 edition of The Vancouver Sun: B.C. climate change has tropical fruits thriving.
Article in the May 26, 2008 edition of The Vancouver Sun: Mediterranean garden grows in warming Victoria.
Hi Sorry it is probably later than you need but I have been growing all types of citrus in B.C. and using the Orangerie method, a double garage with the back South facing wall replaced with windows and have had very successful results. I bring any truly tropical plants into my cool 6 to 12 degree celcius sunroom over the winter and leave my large cold hardy trees out in the Separate Garage (Orangerie) over the winter. They are provided with a small ceramic heater for when the temperature drops below freezing only. They are the more cold tolerant citrus and in general the temperature hovers around 0 to - 1 c over the coldest times when it is -14 to- 16 outside. Citrus do not drop their fruit unless the temperature goes down below -3c. I have had good success with the following cold hardy varieties outside. OUTSIDE ORANGERIE Above 0 to - 6 c at the lowest normally Lemon (Myer and Eureka..marginal to -6 c) Mandarins (Owari and Kinnow,Gold nugget, Kishu -9 c) Nova Tangelo ..Very productive, Fruits alternate years, Very sweet fruit even in lower winter light of British Columbia , Canada . Sweet oranges(Trovita ,Washington,Valencia,Trovita,Midknight,Cara Cara-variegated above -9 c) Blood oranges (Moro,Seville above -9 c) Yuzu Ichandarin (Lemon Hybrid..very hardy -10c hardy) Citrumello (Durstan...Grapefruit hybrid...-12c hardy) Trifoliate Oranges (Dwarf Flying Dragon and Large flowered rootstock ...full grown tree survives outside year round -25 to -30 c hardy) INSIDE SUNROOM (cool 5 - 12 c) Buddas' Hand (no fruit.. yet flowers well. Cool sensitive.likes above 10 c) Indonesian lime (cold sensitive..likes above 10c or no fruit) Mexican lime (key lime..Cold sensitive ...likes above 10c or no fruit) Bears Lime (less cold sensitive and produces fruit readily in cooler climate..B.C.) Limequat(Eustice..Tavares more productive.Cold hardiest Lime.Fruits well in cool B.C.) Pummelo Hybrid (Oroblanco..grapefruit taste.Very sweet,less heat to ripen,above 5 c) Kumquat (cold hardy but produces no fruit if not above 12 c) Calamondin (variegated or green, fruit and flowers well small size lemon substitute) Cold hardy types to aquire...these would be Ideal for B.C. (Hardy from Kumquat parentage... usually very productive) Limequat- Tavares ,very productive Orangequat- Nippon Citrangequat-Macciaroli and Thomasville (edible vs others non-edible) Lemonquat -Sunquat Yuzquat Kumquat- Miewa, Best flavour fresh eating *********** Cold hardier types for Orangerie Mars Orange (sweet and natural dwarf due to consistant fruit production, heavy crops) Bouquet de Fleurs - sour orange ,fragrance not fruit,Gardenia Chinotto orange variegated- small leaves, full of small edible sour fruit year round Myrtifolia orange- many flowers year round..few fruit...1/3 sized leaves good dwarf Flying dragon and Trifoliate orange... Variegated forms Nansho Daidai (citrus Taiwanica cold hardy) Pong Koa honey Mandarin (cold hardy) Lang Huang Kat Mandarin (cold hardy) ************ Warm Sunroom ... RARE types Indio Mandarinquat much larger fruit on this Kumquat x mandarin x orange. Eat sweet peel with tart flesh. Australian Fingerlime (Microcitrus Austrilasica)..Australian citrus caviar..warm climate, Lemon like flavour + turpentine-esque aftertaste . Sidney Hybrid (Microcitrus australias x australasicaGeen elongated fruit acidic and seedless .Australian round lime cross one finger lime. New growth purple ,red buds, spicy odour. Green caviar Faustrimedin and Faustrime (HYBRIDs)..Australian citrus caviar...vesicles used in fine cusine on food...cold hardier hybrid for cooler climates, small fruits...various colours eg: champagne, newly developed in Florida I hope this is a reasonable overview for northern gardeners and helps with growing them here up north. Gefry p.s. I will be offering newly grafted trees in the summer of 2011 on cold hardy, winter dormancy inducing rootstocks of some trees in my first two columns above. Trifoliate orange and naturally dwarfing "flying dragon" rootstock are the best choice for northern growers. Flying Dragon is a beautiful cold hardy twisted outdoor selection on it's own. It grows slowly to only 10 feet here in British columbia with colourful fall/winter yellow/orange fruits. Cheers
Hi I am from Victoria but live in Italy now and our climate is much the same as Victoria. Today I bought a lemon and kumquat tree and the gardener who sold them also grows them in Sicily. He said leaf drop is common and you must prune 4 times a year to stimulate new active growth of leaves and flowers. This is opposite to what I have read here but he lopped off a few long branches of these young trees (2yr) and said to do it again in 3 months. If you have ever seen Sicily for lemons and orange groves then you will know he knows what he is talking about. I am trying it this year. Last year I lost both trees slowly with no new leaves growing all year
Wondering if you are parting with some citrus stock. I am looking for some citus elements to add to my new sunroom. Dwarf rootstock preferably.
Tiny Tom's Tangerine Farm is located in Delta, BC and he's got lots of different types & sizes of citrus trees available. Going there to pick up a calamansi tree or two, plus whatever else catches my fancy. http://dominionjanitorssupply.com/tangerinefarm/ 604-992-3817 (Tom) Very nice guy to talk to. Very enthusiastic about growing citrus in Canada so I'm going over there to pick his brain as soon as he has time. Cheers, Anthony
Just came back from Tiny Tom's and his citrus farm is amazing. Just the sheer number & variety of citrus & other exotic trees & plants in the greenhouse is mind-boggling. I picked up a large calamansi & small one, as well as some lemongrass. He's even going to teach me how to graft different species onto a single rootstock in the next couple of weeks. Learning from pro like Tom whose been growing citrus in BC for decades will be a real honour and experience. Very much looking forward to his grafting lessons. Very generous guy & a pleasure to deal with. Anthony
