Identification: Choshu-hizakura - pink single with extra petals, was Please help to identify

Discussion in 'Ornamental Cherries' started by Irina, Apr 16, 2013.

  1. Irina

    Irina New Member

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    Hi, could you please help with identification?
    1)This is I have no idea what... Maybe not even a cherry? It's on private property, I could not come closer.
    P1390674.jpg P1390671.jpg

    2) How should I distinguish Sargent cherry and Rancho? The book gives literally equal descriptitions. Is this sargent at w 8th ave?
    P1390218.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2013
  2. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Please help to identify

    Irini, the first one is a cherry, but I'm not sure what. Where exactly is it? And can you get closer clear photos of the leaves, backs of the flowers and the stems?? Can you get close enough to see for yourself or see in a photo whether the leaves and stems are hairy or fuzzy? That seems like such a good-looking tree. Maybe a photo of the trunk where it branches and of the trunk at the ground would be good too.

    The others are 'Rancho', which is a sargentii cultivar. There are very few sargentii in Vancouver, none of them street trees. It's maybe hard to tell on young trees. I saw the tags on these. 'Rancho' seem less delicate to me, and less spreading.

    Check out this posting How to Attach Photos and other files for how to get the photos following sections of the text - that seems to be what you're trying to do, but it's not quite working and I've been fixing them up.
     
  3. Irina

    Irina New Member

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    Re: Please help to identify

    Hi Wendy, thank you for the response, sorry for the unfair tags.
    That gorgeous cherry tree is at w27th ave, north side of the road, the house is 4th to the east from Ash street (as on google maps).
    I got couple more pictures today, here is the trunk, leave (not hairy as i can see) and a petal.
    Does this help?
     

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  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: Please help to identify

    Don't see any similarity in the new foliage but otherwise growth habit, general flowering appearance, shape and coloring of flowers all resemble 'Takasago' - maybe it is something from the same part of the room.
     
  5. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Please help to identify

    Irini, thanks for bringing us such a beautiful tree. One day, we'll tell you what it is. Right now, I think we have no idea.

    Ron, I'm glad you brought 'Tasasago' into the room, since I did go out to compare it to that, but really, no hairs. I understood it was hairs that distinguish that cultivar. Kuitert (Japanese Flowering Cherries, Timber Press, 1999) on page 338 says of 'Takasago' that other than the pubescence, it has "no characteristics that distinguish it from typical P. serrulata forms". So I infer from that that we're looking for some typical serrulata. What would that be?

    Here are photos from today. This is a big, dense tree, apparently ungrafted. It's as tall as the house (ok, not a tall house), and it's had limbs removed, so it would have been larger all-around. If this is what 'Takasago' is supposed to look like, we've been had in what we've been given in this city. To top it off, this tree has no brown rot, though it does have some dead branches.
    20130418_27thAsh_IriniMystery_Cutler_P1420631.jpg 20130418_27thAsh_IriniMystery_Cutler_P1420618.jpg 20130418_27thAsh_IriniMystery_Cutler_P1420615.jpg

    As I mentioned, no hairs. I took a young leaf home to dry off to be sure that the hairs weren't just wet and not visible, but I still see no hairs (no separate photo of that here).
    20130418_27thAsh_IriniMystery_Cutler_P1420585.JPG 20130418_27thAsh_IriniMystery_Cutler_P1420583.jpg 20130418_27thAsh_IriniMystery_Cutler_P1420588.JPG 20130418_27thAsh_IriniMystery_Cutler_P1420600.jpg

    The flowers look different to me from 'Takasago' as well. In Irini's photos, they were clearly double blossoms, but now, they mostly look single or semi-double. I have a comparison below showing late 'Takasago' flowers still looking double, with their purple centres. That intense purple centre colouring is also not prominent here. The leaf buds are very red.
    20130418_27thAsh_IriniMystery_Cutler_P1420638.jpg 20130418_27thAsh_IriniMystery_Cutler_P1420606.jpg 20130418_27thAsh_IriniMystery_Cutler_P1420610.jpg 20130418_27thAsh_IriniMystery_Cutler_P1420625.jpg

    Here are some comparison 'Takasago' photos from the West End. They're not going single, even though they're a bit farther along than the one on 27th.
    20130418_CarderoNelson_Takasago_Cutler_P1420655.jpg 20130418_CarderoNelson_Takasago_Cutler_P1420656.jpg 20130418_CarderoNelson_Takasago_Cutler_P1420660.JPG 20130418_CarderoNelson_Takasago_Cutler_P1420669.JPG
     
  6. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Please help to identify

    I want to add that the blossom litter is different on this tree from what I see on West End 'Takasago'. The tree in question has dropped petals, which makes sense, since the flowers used to appear double and now a lot of them appear to be single. The West End 'Takasago' trees have some single petals on the ground, but there are a lot of whole flowers on the ground with pedicels attached and almost all the flowers still on the tree seem to still have most of their petals.

    Tree Irini posted, on 27th ------ West End 'Takasago'
    20130418_27thAsh_IriniMystery_Cutler_P1420617.jpg 20130419_ComoxGilford_Takasago_Cutler_P1420671.jpg
     
  7. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: Please help to identify

    I didn't say I thought it was 'Takasago'.
     
  8. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Please help to identify

    Sorry, Ron, I don't know what else is in that part of the room, and I had another suggestion that it looked like 'Takasago'.

    So we're agreed that we don't know what it is, then.
     
  9. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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  10. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Please help to identify

    I'm getting emails with ideas about this tree, but not so much posted.

    Douglas Justice sent these descriptive words to me in an email on April 20. I'd like to have them here.
    We were looking at 'Kenrokuen-kumagai' for a while, and then Mariko Izaki mentioned 'Choshu-hisakura' as an additional possibility (not ruling out the first one). Research continues.
     
  11. eteinindia

    eteinindia Active Member VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Please help to identify

    When I first saw Irena's pictures, I thought it might be Arashiyama. It looked like semi-double flowers with purple brown leaves. The centers of the flowers are red. It means over the peak bloom or finishing. Then I knew Arashiyama had semi-double white flowers with brown or purplish brown leaves. But I think I have seen Arashiyama finishing pink. But at this moment I can't find the pictures of finishing pink. Also I found the pictures finishing white.

    After I saw details of the flowers I thought it might be Cyoshu-hizakura or Murasaki-zakura.
    Wendy wrote me Douglas mentioned Kenrokuen-kumagai.
    I don't know about Kenrokuen-kumagai, but I know Choshu-hizakura well. It is a very beautiful cherry with large tinted pink flowers blooming with purplish brown leaves. There is one in Koishikawa Botanical Garden and there are at least 2 in Shinjuku-gyoen. The book says it looks almost like Kenrokuen-kumagai, but it has extra petals.
    Koishikawa Botanical Garden
    2011.04.10_2KoishikawaBG_Izaki_ 080_Chosen-hizakura.jpg 2011.04.10_2KoishikawaBG_Izaki_ 081_Chosen-hizakura.jpg 2011.04.10_2KoishikawaBG_Izaki_ 086_Chosen-hizakura.jpg
    Shinjuku-gyoen
    2011.04.12_Shinjuku-gyoen_Izaki_ 136B_Cyosyu-hi-zakura.jpg 2011.04.12_Shinjuku-gyoen_Izaki_ 137 B_Chosen-hizakura.jpg 2011.04.12_Shinjuku-gyoen_Izaki_ 138_Chosen-hizakura.jpg
    2011.04.12_Shinjuku-gyoen_Izaki_ 140_Chosen-hizakura.jpg 2011.04.12_Shinjuku-gyoen_Izaki_ 139_Chosen-hizakura.jpg 2011.04.12_Shinjuku-gyoen_Izaki_ 143_Chosen-hizakura.jpg
    Wendy find the links of Chosyu-hizakura, Ron's friend wrote and the other.


    Also if it starts blooming together with Somei-yoshinos and Akebono, it can be Mursaki-zakura. It looks similar to Choshu-hizakura (no extra petals??) but blooms earlier.
    2012.04.15_ToyoUni&KoishikawaBotanicalGarden_Izaki 091_Murasaki-zakura.jpg 2012.04.15_ToyoUni&KoishikawaBotanicalGarden_Izaki 092_Murasaki-zakura.jpg 2012.04.15_ToyoUni&KoishikawaBotanicalGarden_Izaki 093_Murasaki-zakura.jpg
    2012.04.15_ToyoUni&KoishikawaBotanicalGarden_Izaki 094_Murasaki-zakura.jpg 2012.04.15_ToyoUni&KoishikawaBotanicalGarden_Izaki 095_Murasaki-zakura.jpg 2012.04.15_ToyoUni&KoishikawaBotanicalGarden_Izaki 098_Murasaki-zakura.jpg

    Anyway you can't identity it this year. You have to wait for next year. You have to check how it looks like when it start blooming and how many petals it has.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  12. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: Please help to identify

    The part that brings 'Takasago' to mind is the flowering aspect and growth habit, as I stated the new growth is clearly different. The recent pictures of 'Choshu-hisakura' look like how I remember it in Seattle, as identified by A.L. Jacobson.
     
  13. Irina

    Irina New Member

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    If someone wants to see this lovely tree in full bloom, please come next week
     
  14. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Thanks, Irina! I posted a few photos from Sunday in the South Cambie blog. That was very exciting to see it at peak bloom.
     

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