Cheering ourselves up with Maples

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Acerholic, Mar 19, 2020.

  1. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Another dirty little secret about many of the very new cultivars, is that they are named very quickly. The thing is, maples really do change with time, and a 30 year old tree may not retain the characteristics of a 5 year old one.

    An example (a straw man, really) is 'Orange Dream'. It's very similar to 'Katsura', a very old cultivar. But OD leafs out a couple of weeks later than the very early Katsura, a great advantage in our frost-ridden springs. So all things being equal, great. But what we now know, is that when OD gets older and big, it stops doing the orange display that gives it the name. In fact, it's an attractive but quite plain yellow maple that burns easily and is not very different (when large) from a thousand other seedlings. Katsura on the other hand, flames orange even on older plants.

    So, a straw man because I think OD is a worthy cultivar, lots of people keep it cut back in pots, it does just fine. But it doesn't do what it says on the tin. Some other cultivars seem to have been named this way, and as they grow older there's really nothing at all to distinguish them from the species. 'Nakahara beni' comes to mind.

    Well on a cheerier note, the daisies are now coming into bloom in the sunnier, newer part of the Aceretum. What could be cheerier than daisies? And really putting on quite a show too. This snap taken at sundown this evening.
     

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  2. Atapi

    Atapi Well-Known Member

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    Hi Emery, are you sure you not mixed Beni shichi henge vs. Beni shi en?. I don't have Beni Shi en but I believe it is not in the variegated family. Just checking!
    You should have come back to the arboretum in the Spring or Falls, they have quite a good collection and these are at least 20 to 30+ yrs old trees. I love to see these trees going full size on a large opening field, look magnificient. Well, it looks like you have a large field for your maples, too. I am envying with you where I jammed mine in a small back yard.
     

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  3. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    I am going to listen and learn from what is being said here this evening. I can be such a sucker about thinking I need yet another maple when one is advertised. My wife is sat next to me saying she will believe it when she sees it, lol
     
  4. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    My neighbours garden this evening, shows a JM seedling, no name just a lovely red maple amongst the greens. 'Less is more' as they say.
     

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  5. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Found another couple of pics of the same tree 8 then 5 years ago first time in the ground then moved to a more sunnier spot not much difference , not grown a great deal in that time as stated, girth wise yes but that's about it quite happy where it is though now, just slowly plodding along and keeping it's head down, a very easy going tree no trouble to look after, a container tree for sure.
     

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  6. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    emery have you had any dealings with the guy mailliot company , looking recently on their site and have never seen or heard of a quite a few of the cultivars they are selling ,are they developing and naming them ?
     
  7. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    emery i am going slightly a bit off tangent hear but when you say basically cultivars are named quickly would agree 100% with this, all these new cultivars which have been coming out at a steady stream these past few years, who knows what in twenty years time these new variety's are going to resemble, are they going to revert back to the original gene cultivars they have been created from? seem to remember you saying some where all new cultivars should have to go through a ten year cycle before being accepted as a new cultivar capable of many years of continual growth in regards to the shape of leaf/pattern/structure and continual fall colouration as declared. Have noticed on some of the new cultivars on the description's given it states 'expected' to be x y z in 10/15 years. What then happens then in say 20 + years when certain 'new' cultivars then revert back , not that it will worry me don't think i will have any trees then some how :) personally i think quite a few of the new creations will just fade away if there is not a steady supply of profitable sales , then they will just become another rare cultivar that was created in a climate of mass production for 'new names' but no one took them up for various reasons, plus no one sees them anymore and there fore they have stopped being propagated ??
     
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  8. dangerine49

    dangerine49 Contributor

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    Harry says Howdy!
     

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  9. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    I think that if I had to pick any of my maples for colour and interest this Spring, it would be my reticulated cultivars.
    Here are a few I've been pleased with.
     

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  10. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Guy Maillot spent some (a lot?) of time in Japan, IIRC he worked for the Tsukasa company and studied there. He has very strong connections still in Japan and also some connections with the Oregon people (Talon, etc), which enable him to bring in cultivars that aren't otherwise available in the EU or in the case of Japan, the West at all. He's not a "new cultivar machine" as far as I know. Seems like an honest business man, I once got an incorrect plant from him and didn't really want a replacement at that time, he sent me a check for the price.

    GM holds the national Acer palmatum collection in France, so I guess he's got a lot of material.

    -E
     
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  11. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    @AlainK and @emery , re Maillot nursery. He has
    ACER PALMATUM 'LILEEANNE'S JEWEL' in stock .
    I recall you saying you would like one. It's in a 3 ltr pot atm. 55€.
    Sorry about the large writing, I did copy and paste and can't get out of it.
     
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  12. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    @Atapi Vertrees lists 'Beni shi en' in the Variegated Group (as he defines it), that's really all I know. I've seen some pictures where it looked variegated, albeit slightly, including in Vertrees/Gregory 4th ed. You know more about it than I do, for certain.

    @ROEBUK, ha we'll be feeding the roots of our trees by then, I expect! But I agree completely, and I don't know how to plan for a landscape tree of uncertain size and habit. There are a few new cultivars coming out that are irresistible (like the yellow trident 'Michael Steinhardt', although it's not doing well for me) and others that make me shrug in spite of their popularity (Ghosts, Ikandi -- and what a name Eye Candy indeed!) because they're just too similar to existing cultivars. So I tend to concentrate on the old cultivars for the "few" JMs (compared to a lot of people) I have in the garden. I agree, some of these new cultivars will completely disappear in 50 years, where as the old Japanese cultivars will still be here. Like I said I'll be observing from the root side of things. ;)

    I took some picture of 'Ample Surprise' glowing in the sunset last night, here they are.
     

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  13. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Thanks! I guess it's because it's still rare here, but that's a huge price for a 3l JM. I guess that's another thing to note about GM, he can be quite pricey.
     
  14. Atapi

    Atapi Well-Known Member

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    Wow, quite a collection of reticulate maples you have there, D. Agreed, they keep their colors well and beautiful this year.
    I suggest we get our camera ready and share what our trees look like next week going into June (hot hot hot!)
     
  15. Atapi

    Atapi Well-Known Member

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    Hi M, agreed with you about more and more hybrid cultivars continue to come out. And we collectors can’t keep up with them any more. I begin to go back and keep those legacy one and they tend to do even better for me than the new one. For ex: bought a new one called ‘Taylor’ looks just like Butterfly and the like but failed twice already.
     
  16. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    @Atapi , Hi S, I'm game to carry on with Summer colour photos . As you say forecasts are very hot everywhere it seems.
     
  17. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Hi S , I've given up with Taylor. !!
     
  18. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    These are of my Shirazz, Geisha, and Geisha gone wild today. If I were starting a collection again, I would only plant 'one'. I think it would be Shirazz.
     

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  19. Atapi

    Atapi Well-Known Member

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    I would do the same, thank you.
     
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  20. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    With all respect to Dick van der Maat, and his much-loved daughter, most of us have. It fell victim to my "three strikes" rule: having killed it 3 times, I'm done trying. Apparently it is possible to grow, it seems to take great conditions and an expert hand. It is lovely, though.

    Most people can't tell the difference between Shirazz ('Gwen's Rose Delight') and Geisha Gone Wild. It's a clever name (again in the marketing way) and I assume made money for it's creator.

    This time, here is a maple from the Himalayan range that is little known in the West: The Blue Maple, Acer caesium. It is growing well but it never grows much, this one was planted about 10 years ago, and is only just starting to make a presence. The tone of the foliage does contrast well with the other maples, but unfortunately the little green caterpillars really love it.
     

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  21. wind-borne

    wind-borne Contributor

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    Acerholic, are the fall colors different between the 3?
    I agree one is all one would need but I do not regret 'Geisha Gone Wild' is what I happened on.

    Today
    05.25.20 07.22 AM.jpg 05.25.20 07.42 AM.jpg

    a mellower shot from a couple weeks ago.
    05.13.20 11.08 AM.jpg
     
  22. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Hi @wind-borne, lovely photos btw. Shirazz and Geisha gone wild, I cannot tell the difference tbh in Autumn. Geisha in my garden is a softer orange if that makes sense.
     
  23. Margot

    Margot Renowned Contributor 10 Years

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    After all the rain we've had lately, I'm temporarily renaming my Acer 'Seiryu' as a weeping form. This is my favourite tree in the garden - don't tell the Garry Oaks.
     

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  24. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Hi @Margot, what an incredible tree. An Acer a favourite in the garden!! Where have I heard that before !!!!?
     
  25. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Added three pictures of a 'new' cultivar i managed to pick up from my local garden centre just before the shut down , it's really been pushed in the UK looks very similar to the Taylor cultivar was very pink in the initial spring flush , may also add this one is still living and thriving well , i also have had two Taylor's in the past and lost both of them , what do you think this is ? Sold as ' ijoshi ' a new cultivar or ... ??
     

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