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Discussion in 'Araceae' started by joclyn, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

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    when i see philodendron in stores, i always take a closer look because i'm trying to find the 'scandens' one (that has the purplish underleaf) because the one that i got in a trade didn't survive...

    so, anyhoo. lots of the basic phils and a hoya kentiana that i stupidly didn't grab up...and, on a lower shelf there were some other types of phils...one was the basic green leaf type and then there was this other one. i thought i'd gotten lucky and found a 'scandens'. no, it's different and worth getting for the similarity of the velvety leaf and it has a nice blush of bronze on them, too.

    it's an exotic angel plant...they're not always accurate on names, so i wanted to double check it with you guys...

    marked philodendron 'silver', scindapsus pictus argyraeus.

    so, is this name correct?
     

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  2. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    The correct species name appears to be Scindapsus pictus Hassk. There is a synonym named Scindapsus argyraeus Engl., but synonyms are simply another name for the same species. The plant was originally published in Tijdschrift voor Natuurlijke Geschiedenis en Physiologie in 1842. The the distribution is in Malaysia in SE Asia as well as Singapore and the Philippines. It isn't a Philodendron but is a distant relative of the Philodendron. Philodendron species are only found in Mexico, the Caribbean, Central America and South America. Scindapsus are similar but not closely related. It is actually more closely related to the genus Epipremnum. It is a member of the aroid tribe Monstereae which contains Scindapsuss, Epipremnumm, Amydrium and Rhaphidophora. The plant is much closer to a Monstera than a Philodendron.

    Plants in the genus grow "oppressed" which means very tightly to the host tree. Some species appear to be painted on, but I'm not sure about this one. It is a climbing vine and will display best on a tall totem.
     
  3. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

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    thanks steve! the latin threw me...didn't seem like a phil at all. my instinct was right...thanks for looking in to it for me!!

    so, it's not a phil...has the same basic growth pattern and light/soil/water needs though, right?
     
  4. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Basically correct. Distant relatives, but not a Philodendron. The information was already in my files, I just did a brief edit on what I had filed. I keep files like this and as I run across new specimens I use that as a point to do more research to build a webpage. So putting this up was fairly simple.

    A lot of people find plants like this and instantly think it is a Philodendron and unfortunately plant sellers often don't take the time to research them and put bad info on the tags. One neat little plant.
     
  5. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Jocylyn, I think you may have a problem. I was tired last night and paid little attention to your photo, simply reading your text. I do not believe the plant in your photo is Scindapsus pictus. In fact, I think I have a small specimen of Scindapsus pictus that was given to me recently. I'm going to check in the atrium this morning to confirm and if I do I'll take a photo. I found some photos on Google of plants that are supposedly Scindapsus pictus but I haven't confirmed as yet if the photos are correct. Here's one link:

    http://serendipityacres.com/houseplants/ScindapsusPictusArgyraeus.jpg

    This morning I blew your photo up in PhotoShop. I strongly believe your plant is one of the many variations of Philodendron hederaceum and someone has sold you a plant with a bad tag. Philodendron hederaceum is one of the most variable of al the Philodendron species and is known by many, many names including many synonym scientific names. People call it Philodendron scandens, Philodendron oxycardium, Philodendron micans , Philodendron miduhoi and a bunch of other names. This argument in "names" dates back close to 200 years! Scientists have settled the argument as far as science is concerned but collectors continue to argue on and want to give any leaf with a slightly different shape or color a brand new name. So using all those outdated names fits into their goals quite nicely. Botanists know of close to 1000 different shapes and sizes for this one species!

    If I am right, and I'll try to verify it today, your plant is from either Central America, South America, or the Caribbean. And it is still beautiful, it just came with a bad tag.

    I'm going to go find some additional info and then I'll post more. In the meantime do a photo search on Google for Scindapsus pictus.

    I'm pretty sure you told me you had read this, but check it again. It explains "variation" within species as well as tells the history of how this plant finally was reverted back in science to the origianlly published name of Philodendron hederaceum. Despite numerous posts on the net, botanists die not "change the name". That did not happen! Botanists simply confirmed the correct name which is always the first name published for any species that is correct to genus. This one was originally published as Arum hederaceum but was later found not to be an Arum. So the first published name is Philodendron hederaceum.

    http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron hederaceum pc.html
     
  6. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, my two plants are Rhaphidophora, not Scindapsus.

    I am posting a photo to illustrate oppressed climbing as opposed to scandent climbing. See how tightly this plant grows to the host? Philodendron hederaceum is considered scandent which means it closes close to the host, but not this tight.
     

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  7. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Joclyn, I just read your opening line again. I can't tell "scandens" from anything else within this group fo plants! I doubt many people can either, they simply have developed a perception of what "scandens" should look like. That plant has literally hundreds of variations depending on what South American jungle you happen to be in. But if you'll look at my page on Philodendron hederaceum, if you see one you think may be the "scandens" you want, I'll gladly send you a cutting. The problem will be, in a year it will change. They always do.

    Within a large number of aroid species there is always change. Part is during the live of a single plant and is the ontogeny of the plant or changes observed as that plant grows. We often call the changes that occur during the life of a plant morphogenesis, the changes seen as it grows from juvenile to adult. Morphogenesis is the same as ontogeny. But the other change, or variation within a single species, is not sudden. It occurs over a very long term which can easily be eons. And that long term variation has created a great deal of confusion and controversy among collectors. And that is simply the nature of this species.

    Steve
     
  8. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

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    well, i'd received something called 'philodendron scandens' and it had a velvety texture to the heart-shaped pointy leaves that were green on the upper side and purple on the underside.

    it didn't root - lived for a while and even put out new growth and then finally died. i really liked it and don't have contact with the person i'd done the trade with, so i've been looking for it since.

    i've seen similar with green on upper & lower...nothing with that purple tinge though.

    so, basically, i always look for phil's that have that pointed leaf...

    i knew this wasn't the particular one i was searching for...still, it's lovely in it's own right. so.

    the latin name on the tag didn't fit with philodendron, though. i'd thought hederaceum to begin with.

    so, looks like what little knowledge i have was actually on the mark :)

    as for which particular one it is, it sure looks like the p. camposportoanum that you've got on your website! my pic isn't the best (i REALLY need to read the manual so i can take full advantage of the camera's options!). and you really can't see the coloration on the leaves too well...they look identical to what you've got on your site.

    further, since i've had it, it's changed a little. not the leaf shape - just the manner in which it's 'standing' in the pot. off to the side rather than upwards. it's been an obvious change since i've had it in a brighter spot than when it was in the store. i'll take another pic of it so you can see what i'm talking about.

    the most facinating aspect of these plants is the way they morph as they grow/age. it's like having a whole different plant when they do morph!

    question on potting medium: i just realized the bag of perlite that i bought has fertilizer in it (it's miracle gro brand). is that okay for the phil's?? or should i get plain?

    thanks!!
     
  9. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    The fertilizer is fine! I would consider diluting the mix a bit, but that's all. Take a bag of sphagnum, and the bag of the soil with fertilizer and a bag of Perlite. Put roughly equal amounts in a container and mix it will. A good helping of orchid bark with charcoal and gravel wll also speed the drainage and give the rooms soemthing to cling to. You have then diluted the fertilizer while making the soil drain faster.

    Pot your plant, keep the soil mex damp at all times, and you are in business. Be sure and give bright light!! Bright!! The brighter the light, the faster the growth rate. The plants climb because they are trying to reach brighter light. Lots of growers who want them to stay small keep them in darkened bathrooms. They'll live, but not likely ever morph. The species needs light, moisture, drainage and fertilizer. The combination is what makes them grow.

    I've got several variations that fit your description. The largest has leaves around 15cm (6 inches) at the present time. It is climbing a 6 foot total and I can I see the morphing beginning to take place. The closer to the top, the larger the plant becomes. I hear 16 to 19 inches wideonce adult.

    Although they are all the same speceis, despite the color or lack of color on the bottom, the purple bottom is beautiful. But I've also got them were the blades are not velvet at all. Still the same species, just a natural variation. Dr. Croat has explained they are much like people. Some children grow to adulthood much faster than others. Some have dark skin, some light, some beautfiul faces, others less so. Ever seen a 6 foot 12 year old boy? It is just natural variation within a species. We are the ones who tend to "see" something that isn't really unique.

    I can't make this promise to everyone, but my plants do grow fast enough in our artificial rain forest I can easily share come cuttings. Just drop me a note and tell me which picture on the page you like. The only cost is the postage. Right now we are watering twice a day every day for 10 minutes at a time from an overhead system. They love water and do they grow!

    I had a Friend tell me this week his home and entire collection had burned and I'm going to try to replace as much as I can. People do it for me all the time if I loose something. I get more surprise boxes than I deserve!

    Chances are, the one you lost did not have a growing node on the petiole from which too root. No node, no new roots! Simply putting it in water won't produce new growth. You gotta have those nodes!

    Just look at the page and send me a personal note. Indicate the photo you like and I'll get you enough cutting to start a new plant.
     
  10. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

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    it's the perlite that has the fertilizer on it.

    for the monstera i used a mix of soil, cactus mix and orchid mix (which has bark, perlite, gravel and charcoal). so, i didn't add in more perlite even though i had it on hand. i've two brands of orchid mix - one has a lot of perlite and the other none.

    when i was in the store, i noticed the perlite on the shelf had fertilizer in it, so when i got home i checked the bag i had (that i hadn't opened yet) and it's the same stuff.

    for the aroids, i'm glad to hear that the fertilizer is okay...for the cactus i don't think it is...will have to inquire about it and do more research (i'm still very new to cacti and have a ton to learn yet).

    i did send you a note...and was going to send you a surprise package, too! then i saw that you already have the syngonium that i was going to send...

    oh, as for the 'scandens' with the purple coloration...i was going to purposely keep it in a spot where the growth would be slowed so that i could keep it in the juvenile form so that i could keep the purple...
     
  11. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Understandable. Lots of people prefer to see them when they are juvenile. I like to see them morph. I missed your note somewhere, if you want cuttings of any of mine just send it again.
     
  12. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

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    i agree, i'd rather see them morph, too!! it's just that that particular one was SO, so pretty in the juvenile form...and purple IS my color, so....

    i sent it last night...very late because i was all over your site for about 2 hours before i sent it...i REALLY love your site!!
     
  13. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    And I love to know you use it! It is a work of enjoyment for me and LOTS of experts help me to research and write this stuff. Actually, I write it, they just fix my errors!

    No email from you this morning so it got lost somewhere! I think!
     
  14. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

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    i just resent it.
     
  15. edleigh7

    edleigh7 Well-Known Member

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    I just found out that I might have a Rhaphidophora myself. I seen it in the nursery labelled as R X 'Freckles'. Its variegated with cream. I actually saved from a friend who had it in a pot climbing a totem. It was all shrivelled and nearly dead, so I put it in the pond for a week, then in the garden. Its still surviving but only just...

    Ed
     
  16. Anthurium lover

    Anthurium lover Active Member

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    Its amazing how these things just jump you, no matter how far you try to run from them. I recently had to go back to a florist the next day to buy a half dead cymbidium orchid that worked its way into my dreams the night I saw it.

    You can't tell me these things don't communicate....
     
  17. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but you just hit a raw nerve. I sent a fiery letter to Lowe's stores yesterday as a result. Once in Fayetteville,AR a few weeks ago, and again twice this week in our local Lowe's "discount" store I found an attempt to deceive and or cheat customers buying orchids. All three times, and I went back again to check for more, the employees had carefully spliced a broken or bent orchid spike and hidden it form the potential buyer. I bought one it was so carefully concealed. $25.00!

    The problem, those phal are not going to last. In a week or two the blooms will die since the nutrient source has been severed. Whether Lowe's trains and endorse this to their employees is unknown, but I did ask! It is out Right deceit and dishonest sale practices! They sell you a defective orchid at full markup.

    Today I had over 60 people visit our tropical atrium and one lady said she had been told by a reliable source that Lowe's purposely buys discount and damaged orchids, performs their little "surgery" and sells them at full price. I have a standing offer from Hawaii to buy phals for $5 each f I buy 30 at atime. All will have bent spikes.

    Examine any orchid you buy at a Lowe's store very carefully. Look for excess tie wrap more than two or three tie wraps around the spike connecting it to the post. carefully examine the spike If there are more than two pieces DO NOT BUY THAT orchid! I am now awaiting a response from the Lowe's national headquarters but they better have a good answer. I've put this notice on three page on my own website and several hundred thousand people each year read my site. In my opinion it is fraud! And I told them so!
     
  18. Anthurium lover

    Anthurium lover Active Member

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    I can well believe it. The orchid I mentioned had a layer of "mulch" with a cigarette butt in it and was in spike in February. My theory, and I may well be wrong, was that they'd attempted to kill the poor girl so that she'd spike early and they could sell her off. Of course I had no idea as I'd never had an orchid in my life, so although I knew she was in a state, I didn't realize she was near death.
    She's lucky she jumped me, as I took her home, studied orchids then cut out her rotted root system (65% dead) and she now has a chance (not guaranteed, as its winter down here and I'm just hoping she'll survive long enough for her Spring Summer growth spurt so she can set down a decent root system). I've named her "Scheherazade" as she's lucky she can tell a good story or she'd be DEAD!
     

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