Brown Scale on Jade. See photos...

Discussion in 'Cacti and Succulents' started by powerlight, Jan 19, 2009.

  1. powerlight

    powerlight Member

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    Hello all.

    Long-time reader, first-time poster.

    I have a jade plant and another succulent that have been suffering from a brown, withering scale. I know there is a pest that fits this description, but it doesn't appear to be it (from what I've read.)

    See the photos attached. They get the scale and over time the leaves wither and fall.

    Any ideas on what this might be and how to cure it? One of my plants has lost ALL of its leaves and is trying, valiantly and with little help from a neglectful owner, to grow new ones.

    I was told that very dry air in your house could cause this scaling and cracking. Any thoughts?
     

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    Last edited: Jan 20, 2009
  2. Blake09

    Blake09 Active Member

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    You could try misting it every couple days.
     
  3. JenRi

    JenRi Active Member

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    Won't that make it rot?
     
  4. Blake09

    Blake09 Active Member

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    No. From all the plants I have misted They have not roted. I mean the leaves not the hole entire plant.
     
  5. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

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    succulents, like crassula's (which is what a jade is), shouldn't be misted often because that can cause rot. succulents come from very dry regions and don't need much moisture on them...they take up moisture from their roots and store it inside the trunk and leaves (that's why the leaves are fleshy/plump)

    do you have good air circulation in the room this plant is in?? are you watering it regularly?? they don't need as frequent watering in winter as they do in summer, still, they DO need something at least once every 5 weeks.

    this could be due to lack of water for too long or it could be fungal.

    periodically, i lose a leaf or two and it's no big deal as they're usually the lower leaves and since they are older, it's just the normal course of grow, get old and then die.

    your situation doesn't look like that since you have more than one plant that is affected. it does seem to be something fungal or maybe even some kind of parasite.

    what is the other plant that also has this condition?

    there is a disease that affects jades and causes them to rot and there doesn't seem to be a treatment for it...since you have another plant affected, i don't think that's the problem. it's most probably something fungal and you can treat that with a fungicide.
     
  6. Blake09

    Blake09 Active Member

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    I didn't know that succulents would root. That is one more thing I Learned today. :)
     
  7. Chungii V

    Chungii V Active Member

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    I think they are both jade plants. The second looks like Crassula ovata "Golem". It does look like the leaves have become too dry and begun to crack. Crassula have a natural waxy coating on the leaf if this dries I guess you'd end up with what you have. How dry is the air I'm guessing it's not in air con but even heaters draw moisture out of the air. I have seen this on mine occassionaly but it always seems to grow out. We have high humidity most year round and they normally seem fine.
    I wonder though if misting the leaf now that it's cracked, would the moisture sit too long and rot the plant. It may be worth removing the older unhealthy leaves before starting to mist. So long as it's a very light mist done maybe once a week I doubt it would be harmful.
     
  8. Wolvie150

    Wolvie150 Active Member

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    I tend to agree more that it is a pathogen. The "tunneling" effect, makes me think fungal. But the third picture looks almost like galling from a viral. Is that just a 'last stage' leaf?
     
  9. Chester

    Chester Active Member 10 Years

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    Galls are usually bacterial, fungal or insecticidal. Not viral to my knowledge. I was wondering if the Jade is near a heat source? Forced air is particularly drying...
     
  10. Wolvie150

    Wolvie150 Active Member

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    oh, thanks! Guess that just makes me agree more with joclyn!
     
  11. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

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    yes, that last leaf does look like it's in the last stages of death. poor thing.

    i also agree with the 'golum' id...didn't realize at first that the pics were of different plants (my bad, didn't look closely enough at leaf shapes...was just looking at the damage).

    i also agree with forced air being very drying (regardless of whether it's cold or hot)...no plants should ever be in the direct line of forced air - from heat vents or from a/c units.
     
  12. togata57

    togata57 Generous Contributor 10 Years

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    Could this condition be plant edema?
     
  13. Chester

    Chester Active Member 10 Years

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    I think Togata is right. Apparently Jades are susceptible to it.
     
  14. powerlight

    powerlight Member

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    I will try to fill in as many blanks as I can:

    The air circulation is fine. I do not have A/C or forced air. It is an older, Victorian home with hot water baseboards. None of the plants are in spots that are particularly drafty or directly in the heat. In fact, I have about 5-6 scattered throughout my apt in different locations. I have been watering them only lightly twice a month at the most. Usually much less often.

    The last photo is of a freshly fallen leaf, although not all are as withered as this one when they fall. The fallen leaves have shiny flecks on them. I assumed this was just minerals from the water they consume.

    I would rather not abandon all hope quite yet. If they do have to go, I will be sure to send the pots and soil out with them though.

    As per the plant in the second photo, I believe it is a Crassula ovata Gollum. Thanks for the id.

    So what do you think guys? Should I try fungicide, insecticide, or just commit an act of planticide?

    I am overwhelmed at your response. Thank you all.
     
  15. Chungii V

    Chungii V Active Member

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    Sounds like it, but wouldn't the plant be more likely to rot as edema is caused by overwatering from what I could tell? It's something I have seen a bit of in Nurseries and plants do get overwatered in nurseries so that does hint at Togata's suggestion.
    I think it was on my plants when they came home from the nursery but since they've been repotted and put in a sunny open position I've not seen it again. It has come up on some cuttings which I have in a shadier less airy position with minimal water, so I'd be more inclined to think it environmental rather than pathonogenic.
    What I can't figure is why it's not mentioned in books and impossible to find info on the internet regarding the plants situation. Is it possibly because it's not a major problem or just something thats been overlooked?
     
  16. Blake09

    Blake09 Active Member

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    Yes you might want to try and grow it from cuttings if the plant cant be saved.
     
  17. Bluewing

    Bluewing Well-Known Member

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    I have never seen anything like that before!

    It looks like crocodile leather! I also tried to find something online, anything with these kinds of marks or a description at least that matched the jade photo, but was unsuccessful. I wonder if it's some kind of pest that made those trails, and have since disappeared??? The marks remind me a little of "leaf minor" damage in a way.
     
  18. JenRi

    JenRi Active Member

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    You could also try this anyway (just in case) but sterilise the soil before you put the cuttings in it, and leave one next to the poorly ones and one elsewhere. If the cuttings root and don't show scale, it'll be the soil and if the one nearest the sick ones gets sick too and the other one doesn't it will probably environmental or some sort of fungus/bacterial infestation

    Sometimes you have to approach things scientifically to work it out....
     
  19. K Baron

    K Baron Well-Known Member

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    No I am no expert, but I am the only person that I know, to mass produce Crassulas from an 18 year old clipping, to what is now a five foot tall mammoth, and in full bloom since mid December... I have never seen this condition on any of my Jade, ever, and they have experienced trauma, forced air vents, cold, damp, over watering and on and on...

    Your plants look deathly ill....the new growth may perpetuate it's condition... if I can attach a photo here goes...

    /Users/anteroduarte/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Originals/2009/Roll 170/IMG_0001.JPG
     
  20. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

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    there is a type of rot that affects jades and it doesn't seem to be treatable in any way. i can not recall the name of it at the moment.

    it could be an edema issue, i suppose. especially if they are being watered twice a month in winter.

    question: what kind of container are the plants in - glazed, unglazed, plastic? are there drainage holes in the bottom? what kind of soil are they in - regular, cactus, a mix?

    if they are in plastic or glazed and especially if there are no drain holes, then overwatering may just be the issue. if they are in one of these types of pots (with or without drain holes), then check the base of the trunks - if they are soft/mushy, then you've got rot going and i would recommend taking cuttings.

    let the cuttings callous over for a few days and then pot up in cactus mix or a mix of cactus mix and regular soil. add perlite for extra drainage with either mix. let the cutting sit for a week or so before watering and then water once monthly until spring when the growing period begins and then you can water more frequently. they still shouldn't be watered more than every two weeks or so. always check the soil down an inch or so and if there's the slightest moisture, hold off watering for a few more days.

    i always use unglazed clay with drain holes for my crassula's and for most of my cacti. i just insert the unglazed pot into a nice glazed/decorative container to hide the orange clay.
     
  21. Chungii V

    Chungii V Active Member

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    Just another question, 3 actually:
    How long have you had the plants and where are they from? How long have you had this problem.
     
  22. Chester

    Chester Active Member 10 Years

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    You know, my jades have done this before too. Now it was only a leaf or two mind you, and it was when they were in a Western window and getting some high sun exposure. Now I'm not suggesting that here, but I have seen this before and it wasn't anything to be alarmed at. However this time your plant does look mighty sick. I just kind of chalked it up to the plants cuticle taking a beating from the sun. Guess I was wrong. Maybe it's time for you and your best plant buddy to go shopping. Sometimes cactus societies have some dandy varieties of Jades...or heck let's talk about what else could go in that location!
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2009
  23. Doug Allen

    Doug Allen New Member

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    Hi there. Did you ever find a solution to this issue? I have two big Jade's that are afflicted and can not find any info online to help. Thanks.
     
  24. Michigander

    Michigander Active Member

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    This sounds like a dead horse. Stop beating it and get everything associated with it out of your house. You can't over-water a Jade by doing it every two weeks, and while that seems like too long an intermission to me, Jade will just shrivel a little when it's too dry and look just fine a day after watering. Unless these plants have some sentimental value, ~like a hairshirt your father used to wear, ditch them. There is very little investigation into plant diseases because they are relatively cheap to produce and people are too cheap to pay for any cure that costs more than the replacement cost of the plant, ~not to speak of the percentage of the population that is hesitant to introduce chemicals into their homes. Who wants to spend a lot of skilled research into curing diseases to save a $10 houseplant?

    Not only should you get rid of the diseased critters, but don't buy another succulent for a respectful period of time, ~enough time for any organism that may be present in your household to whither from lack of a host. Right about now Doug is clenching his teeth because it takes some time to possess big Jades, not obtained by over or under watering, and he doesn't want to hear this kind of message. Doug may be among that small population that will go that extra mile. For him, I suggest first using a rose systemic soil drench and/or granules, or both, followed by separate drenches of a fungicide like Soapshield, a pyrethrin oil like Pyola, 15% household bleach in tap-water, and finally a wet-able sulfur. I would do the drenches at one per month through the whole list which gets you to April.

    The list of problems you might have is much longer than the list of possible solutions. You might have a missing trace element in the soil which is usually cured by re-potting in soil from a different source and feeding with a fertilizer that has trace elements. If or when you re-pot, adding a serious amount of charcoal would be useful. Orchid mixes contain lots of charcoal which sequesters surplus minerals and purifies soil. Whatever else is true, you are limited to only so many attempts to solve your dilemma. Viruses are not curable. Some microorganisms and/or pests in the soil are addressable, others are not. There are millions of different nematodes, all are too small to see without aid. I know this is unwelcome advice, and many, most or all of the treatments I listed are painful, but you needed to hear the other side of the spectrum, too, so you can make a serious decision and carry-on. Godspeed.
     
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