Brewer´s Spruce ......where to buy near Spain?

Discussion in 'Gymnosperms (incl. Conifers)' started by Carlos Sequoia, Jun 15, 2007.

  1. Carlos Sequoia

    Carlos Sequoia Member

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    Hello.
    I write from Spain. I´m unable to find Brewer´s Spruce in my State.
    Do you know any nursery near Spain to delivery this tree? I think 60-100 cm (2-3 feet) is a reasonable option.
    Two years ago searching about this tree.... anybody can help me?

    Regards
     
  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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  3. Carlos Sequoia

    Carlos Sequoia Member

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    Hi, Ron.
    I´ve just sent several mails to english gardens.
    If I find my wanted tree, I will say you.

    Thanks.
    Regards.
     
  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    De nada.
     
  5. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Good luck with finding it!

    Where do you hope to grow it? At the latitude of Salamanca, it would only grow well at high altitude, above about 1200m up to 2500m. Somewhere like the Sierra de Gredos would be good for it.
     
  6. Carlos Sequoia

    Carlos Sequoia Member

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    Michael F, this is a good description (by Dale Thornburgh, http://www.na.fs.fed.us/pubs/silvics_manual/Volume_1/picea/breweriana.htm):

    Native Range:
    Brewer spruce is found only in the mountains of northwestern California and southwestern Oregon near the Pacific coast between latitudes 40° 50' N. and 42° 40' N. The best developed stands are on the high ridges of the western Siskiyou Mountains in California and Oregon. Other concentrations are found on high ridges and in upper valleys of the Marble, Salmon, and Trinity Mountains of California.


    Climate:
    The range of Brewer spruce is primarily influenced by the maritime climate of the Pacific Ocean: cool, wet winters and warm, relatively dry summers. The climate changes drastically, however, from west to east across the range of Brewer spruce, which is 113 km (70 mi). On the most westerly ridge occupied by Brewer spruce, average annual precipitation is more than 2800 mm (110 in); farther east, it is less than 1000 mm (39 in). Most of the precipitation falls as winter rain or snow; less than 5 percent occurs in the summer. The amount of -snowfall and accumulated snowpack varies greatly from year to year and geographically across the range. A few stands of Brewer spruce in valleys receive no snow some years, whereas other stands accumulate up to 4 to 5 m (13 to 16 ft) (5). Humidity is high in the western part of the range and relatively low in the eastern part. Summer fog is common along the western-most ridges and valleys. Summer thunderstorms are common in the eastern portion of the range. Temperatures also vary widely. In the western portion, the mean temperature in January is 5° C (41° F); in July, 11° C (52° F). On the eastern edge of the range, the mean temperature is -1° C (30° F) in January and 20° C (68° F) in July.
    The varied climate indicates that Brewer spruce has an ecological amplitude that should enable it to obtain a wider and more contiguous distribution. Its sensitivity to fire seems to have restricted its range.

    Soils and Topography:
    Brewer spruce grows on a wide variety of geologic parent materials and soils. It is found on soils developed from sedimentary, granitic, serpentine, and metavolcanic rocks. Most of the large stands of Brewer spruce are found on shallow, rocky, undeveloped soils of the order Entisols; a few stands are on deeper, well-developed soils. Throughout its range, Brewer spruce is never found in areas where the soils are saturated during the growing season. It appears to be generally restricted from the more fertile soils by competition from true firs (Abies spp. ). Brewer spruce is more abundant on less fertile soils.
    Brewer spruce is found on most topographic locations-ridgetops, north- and south-facing slopes, benches, and valley bottoms. The only habitat restriction is boggy or wet areas. The apparently preferred location is the steep, north-facing slopes where the largest stands are located. In the western Siskiyou Mountains, these locations are north slopes near the tops of the ridges, but in the eastern Salmon Mountains, the largest stands are on middle, north-facing slopes. Brewer spruce is found from elevations of 700 to 2100 in (2,300 to 6,900 ft) in the western Siskiyou Mountains and from 1370 to 2290 in (4,500 to 7,500 ft) in the eastern Klamath region.

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    So, I hope it can grow at 1200 m (little mountain), north-facing slope, cool winter (-2/-10ºC), warm summer (wet nights), sun (sunset to 01 pm), shadow (1 pm to sunrise), sedimentary and granitic soil..... and also, sprinkler.

    What do you think about? It is possible? I need a chance!

    Brewer weeping Spruce is a wonderful tree! My favorit!

    Regards
     
  7. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    That should be ideal!
     

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  8. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Interesting that on the basis of latitude and climate, it is almost exactly the same to take this sentence:
    And equate it to this:
     
  9. jaro_in_montreal

    jaro_in_montreal Active Member

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    I believe that the statement that "Brewer spruce has an ecological amplitude that should enable it to obtain a wider and more contiguous distribution" is bang-on.

    My two B.s. trees came through their first winter here in Montreal without the slightest blemish or any other sort of visible stress, and are producing lots of new growth all over.

    It may not be Z3, as the Iseli web site says (the local distributor said its a mistake, citing California zone numbers), but its definitely good to Z5 at least.
     
  10. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    I hope you're not basing that last conclusion on one winter's experience.
     
  11. Carlos Sequoia

    Carlos Sequoia Member

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    There are a lot of nurseries in United Kingdom where you can find Wreber´s Spruce (I´ve e-mailed them).

    At this link, you can see Europe Plant Hardiness Zones:
    http://www.backyardgardener.com/zone/europezone.html

    So, United Kingdom and Spain are Zone 8. I think it is possible.

    Regards
     
  12. Carlos Sequoia

    Carlos Sequoia Member

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    Nurseries UK replies to my e-mails:

    "Thank you for your enquiry. We are very sorry but we do not deliver/ship items outside of the United Kingdom and unfortunately we don’t have any information available for nurseries/plant centres that do offer this service".

    Any other idea?
     
  13. Carlos Sequoia

    Carlos Sequoia Member

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    Good news!
    I´ve found a nursery in UK. Next week, they send me Brewer´s Spruce.

    Thanks to Ron, Michael and Jaro.
    Regards.
     
  14. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Excellent!

    Did they specify if it is a seedling, or a grafted plant? Seedlings are better, as grafted plants are very difficult to establish apical dominance in (they stay growing as 'branches' for many years).
     
  15. jaro_in_montreal

    jaro_in_montreal Active Member

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    Michael,

    What root stock are Brewer's Spruce grafted on ? ....presumably not another Brewer's Spruce !

    PS. this may explain the confused branching on my BS trees -- or is that normal ?
     
  16. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Hi Jaro,

    Probably Picea abies, as that's usually the cheapest spruce for seedlings.

    Can you post a pic of yours?
     
  17. Carlos Sequoia

    Carlos Sequoia Member

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    I´m not sure, but I think it is a seedling plant. Next 10 years I hope know it (good weeping branches).
    Regards
     
  18. jaro_in_montreal

    jaro_in_montreal Active Member

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    Thanks Michael, for offering your inspection services :O)

    Frankly, I'm very puzzled, because I never saw any sign of grafting on the lower trunk of either of the two trees -- as the first two photos show.

    I don't know if you can make it out in the last photo, but its clear that two would-be leaders were pruned on that tree.
    I don't see any significant pruning on the other tree, but I may have to do some in the future, as the place is a mess....
     

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  19. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Hi Jaro,

    They do look like seedlings - they're not excessively weeping (only just starting to weep a little), and are fairly symmetrical. Grafts try to weep to below ground level, and are usually very one-sided. Why the trunk isn't fully straight, I'm not sure.
     
  20. jaro_in_montreal

    jaro_in_montreal Active Member

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    Thanks !

    Any chance they might be rooted cuttings ?
     
  21. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Wouldn't have thought so, spruces are all but impossible to root from cuttings.
     
  22. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Don't have to be but they resemble specimens I see here, not always labeled as such which I take to be the grafted cultivar, 'Mt Magic' produced by Wells Nursery in Mt Vernon, WA. Looks like yours have the same largish needles and rather zigzag branching pattern. (Jacobson, NORTH AMERICAN LANDSCAPE TREES didn't see anything different about it). Unless bearing the Siskiyou spruce foliage the funny little branch coming out of the trunk in the top left photo could even be a rootstock remnant.
     
  23. Carlos Sequoia

    Carlos Sequoia Member

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    There is a Nursery web page that wrote:
    "The Brewer Spruce is usually not commercially available except under contract".
    Why?
     
  24. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Presumably that particular nursery has a stock plant they can propagate from, but they only do so on request, not having ready-to-buy plants on the shelves. It does mean they are only likely to sell grafetd plants rather than seedlings, so I would not buy from there.
     
  25. Carlos Sequoia

    Carlos Sequoia Member

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    Thanks you. Now, I understand it. OK.
     

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