In terms of winter hardiness what are your opinions about these species and I ask because I'm beginning to prefer growing seedlings over grafted plants and because also I have the room to try to develop hardier controlled hybrids: Thanks very much, I really value your opinion. Dax palmatum shirasawanum circinatum japonicum Obviously 'Bloodgood' 'Atropurpureum' seedling-grown 'Atropurpureum' and 'Emperor I' are the hardy Dark Maroon Maples, but I wish to hear about others. And I don't particularly want to continue crossing 'Emperor I' with everything else over and over again, but I still might. lol Thanks again.
Hi Dax, I live in zone 8 so I cannot give you a personal experience. The consensus in the books seem to put shirasawanum as the hardiest, mainly due to its late leafing (as compared to palmatum or japonicum) which seems to give less susceptibility to spring frosts. Circinatum would take a second place although Dirr states in his book (Manual of Woody Landscape Plants) that he has been unable to grow it in Illinois, although he claims that zone 5 in the East Coast is OK (spring frosts less damaging there?) Gomero
Thanks Gomero... My personal experience which doesn't amount to a ball of wax from having gotten up close and saw which were the 'healthiest' specimens at the US National Arboretum (again 2+zones warmer than here) were in the palmatums: 'Dr. Baker' 'Callico' 'Kiyohime' 'Ichigyoji' 'Red Baron' 'Sanguineum' 'Skeeter's Broom' ('Bloodgood' witches' broom) 'The Bishop' 'Naru Nishiki' My experience here has been that both japonicum & shirasawanum outdue the palmatums. I've hung onto a very large Acer palmatum 'Seiryu' for almost five years now. I purchased it in like a 35 gallon container or something. It's in a very small microclimate facing to the northwest so it's subjected to more harsh winds than had it been planted in another spot. I also have an Acer japonicum 'Acontifolium' that gets very little branch die-back and is in full sun and in the open. To a large degree it's my opinion that in my climate a large root system must be present in order for success and that a little tlc is needed intially. We don't have much of a selection in the large nurseries around here and I don't know if it's for a lack of courage or whatever be the case. However, I will find out one way or another and not until I have substantial root systems for them to be placed in their permanent location. Certainly a large screening of conifers as well as conifers in vast quantities throughout my gardens at a future time may aid to luck being on my side. And a little weather on my side certainly wouldn't hurt either:) Thank you, Dax
Dax, I love hearing from fellow zone 5'ers. Where is Mercer County? I am in Central Illinois and would agree with everyone that the shirasawnum are the number one as far as hardiness is concerned for me. I only have two japonicums at the moment, one I've had for few years and another I just planted outdoors last year. If I were to hybridize, though, I would not totally neglect the palmatums because it seems to me that within the cultivars there are some that have proved rock hardy and vigorous for me, and not just the red-leaved, even some dissectums like A. palm. 'Verdis' and A. palm. 'Waterfall'. I have had them for 5-10 years and never suffer dieback. This year we had an extended -10 below zero stretch, like for a couple weeks and I was worried because they weren't wrapped, but they look great. Another couple that have really impressed me are A. palm. 'Beni Schichihenge' and A. palm. 'Ukigumo', where you get into the variegated leaves. Some new ones that I have been impressed with as far as hardiness are some of the "ghost" series, A. palm. 'Sister Ghost' for one. It has been in the ground for two or three years now and was put there as a small 2-3 year graft, that way you can pull in the reticulated leaf to the gene pool. THen to add a large leaf to the "pool" A. palm. 'Osakazuki' has thrown some beautifully colored and shaped seedlings for me this winter. THe thing with the palmatums, I think is that there will be more genetic variation. I'd be curious to see what others think. I know they are doing trials at Morton Arboretum in the Chicago area with palmatum seedlings. Think how wonderful it would be to have a strain of reliably hardy palmatums other than 'Bloodgood' and 'Emperor I'. Although it would also be neat to have more variations in leaves of the others, too. Also, isn't there a cultivar called 'Johin' that is supposed to be a cross between shirwasawnum and palmatum? So much fun. Kay Dye
Hi Kay, Now that's what I wanted to hear. I got wood from a few folks and I actually have every plant you listed right now in the greenhouse as fresh grafts... only two of the Ghost Series but all else. And about 1/2 my grafts are leaving at the moment. Great News, you just made life a little easier for me. The good thing about grafting old wood is that it already has the genetic predisposition to produce flowers/seeds. Some of my little critters are booming with flowers right now on their first bud push. That's good! Mercer County is south of "The Quad Cities" by 40 miles (Rock Island & Moline Illinois and the Iowa cities: Davenport, Bettendorf - etc).... I'm growing seedlings from a mature collection of open pollinated cultivars as well at the moment. Huge seed producers (may change year to year, I don't know) but they are: 'Wou Nishiki', 'Versicolor', 'Seiryu', & 'Orido Nishiki'. I really think it's time to reach to the seeds to start finding really sweet Maples that I and all of us, desire, to have reliabily in our garden schemes and I have plenty of time to do this. Thank you so much, Dax
Dax, This is soooo cool. I can't believe there is someone so near, geographically, to me who is doing something like this. So how long have you been growing the seedlings you are using? do you have them in containers, planted out? I have so many questions I don't know where to begin. So you plan on going strictly with open pollinated? I am growing my first maple seedlings this year and I am hooked. I am already thinking that I would like to try to actually cross a couple of palmatums, but am not sure about how difficult the "mechanics" are. I have hybridized hostas for years, but they're easy. The flowers on the maples are so little and delicate. If anyone reading this forum wants to give any tips and instructions, I'm ready. I have been surprised that verdis, waterfall, and inabe shidare seem to throw dissectums, I didn't expect that. In fact, I am surprised in general with the variation of the leaves. I don't know how much that will change over the years, and I really know nothing, compared to others on this list, but I'm psyched. I am glad the information was what you needed. I have been on a quest to see who in zone 5 is growing which palmatums successfully. I also have a list from a man on the east coast and the palmatums he's grown for years. Some are the same on my list, but some not. I totally agree with you about seeds being the way to bring palmatums to colder climates. Have you ever visited the Morton Arboretum to see their seedling test area? Keep us posted on how your pod production goes. Kay