Bloodgood or not

Discussion in 'Maples' started by patdero1, May 8, 2016.

  1. patdero1

    patdero1 Active Member Maple Society

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    I was at a local nursery and they had a few small grafts labeled A P bloodgood. So I purchased two of them because the leaves looked different then the two older bloodgoods that I have. My trees that I have are prob 10-15 years old.
    I just wanna make sure mine are bloodgoods.
    Thanks in advance!
    Pat
     

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  2. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member 10 Years

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    Look good to me Pat unlike quite a few I've seen on here :)
     
  3. Geezer840

    Geezer840 Active Member 10 Years

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    The leaves sure look to be Bloodgood but I think another characteristic of the Bloodgood is the curved branch shapes. I'm not sure that those would be evident in smaller trees.
     
  4. bub72ck

    bub72ck Active Member

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    I would say your 10-15 year old specimen has a MUCH better chance being a Bloodgood than a lot of what is being sold under that name today.
     
  5. Alexis F

    Alexis F New Member

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    I have two Bloodgoods bought from two separate nurseries and they look totally different. One looks rather like the Atropurpureum I have but it is much darker. And the other is almost black but its leaves have an almost claw like appearance Rather like the Trompenburg only bigger. It also has a much more upright sentinel type look.
    But they both say Bloodgood on the label and I am not experienced enough to argue.
     
  6. bub72ck

    bub72ck Active Member

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    Bloodgood is probably the most propagated cultivar of JM and my guess is it has been more often poorly propagated than not. Most growers will choose specific plants with the healthiest of cultivar characteristics to gather cuttings from and others will use any of the cultivar they can find. As those characteristics become more and more watered down through generations we as the consumer lose any resemblance of the original tree. In most cases you probably still have a beautiful tree but it's not what a "Bloodgod" should traditionally look like.
     
  7. Alexis F

    Alexis F New Member

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    In most cases you probably still have a beautiful tree but it's not what a "Bloodgod" should traditionally look like.

    Can you say what would be the characteristics of an original Bloodgood?
    One of my boys is a definite impostor!
     
  8. Geezer840

    Geezer840 Active Member 10 Years

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    One characteristic of a true Bloodgood is a tendency for branches to be curved as opposed to straight. Here are a couple of pictures showing this trait.
     

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  9. Mani

    Mani Active Member

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    Do you think these branches are Bloodgood like? i.e. are they curved enough?

    I have my doubts!
     

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  10. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    @Mani, good afternoon, you are asking a question that so many people ask, 'do I have a true Bloodgood'!!?
    Your photos tend to say No to that answer, more to the fact of colour. But it maybe the light in the shots.
    A true Bloodgood is shown in @Geezer840 photos. That is what it should look like. A deep maroon red on top and a burgundy red on the undersides. with no showing of green at all. I have always gone by the rule, that if it turns gradually green, then you do 'not' have a Bloodgood.
    Branch shapes can take a little time, especially if under 3 years old.

    Sorry I cannot be more precise, but someone else might give you a better answer.
     
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  11. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    'Bloodgood' is said to be deeply colored, able to retain is color through summer and a strong red in autumn. However it is not known where and when it originated - there are apparently no old nursery catalogs from an originating nursery around to check original descriptions. So really nobody today is in a position to say if a given plant is an example of the original introduction or not - there is no known originating source to trace any one clone back to, so as to certify that clone as being true to type. And since material labeled as 'Bloodgood' was on the American market by 1936 there has been plenty of time for incorrect plants to be produced and circulated - I personally have seen stock offered under the name that quite obviously consisted of a batch of variable seedlings (plants raised from seed, rather than grafted clones). One including plants with coloring that ranged into nearly green.
     
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  12. Mani

    Mani Active Member

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    That's disappointing. I think i have a 'dud' then!

    See pics - 1st three are on top of the leaves, 4th and 5th are underneath, then the last two are real proof that this isnt a true Bloodgood.

    I wonder if i can get a refund!
     

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  13. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    @Mani, good evening Mani, IMHO, I have to agree with you, but there are countless Bloodgoods out there that are not Bloodgood.
    If you do decide to take it back for a refund, then take some photographic evidence from the below photos with you. If it is a reputable garden centre you should have no problem getting a refund.

    For future reference to buying another one, then consider Hippopotering. They are very professional and Chelsea gold medal winners with a reputation to uphold. Apart from that they are friendly and helpful. The latter goes a long way with me.

    Good luck.
     
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  14. Mani

    Mani Active Member

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    @Acerholic i'll have to think about it as it still is a nice acer even though!
     
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  15. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    @Mani, I was hesitant to say that, as I didn't know what your thoughts about it was.
    If it were me and I had the room I would keep it. Saves a lot of hassle tbh and you still have a lovely tree. We all have unamed trees in our collections from seeds etc, so why not this one.
     
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  16. Mani

    Mani Active Member

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    @Acerholic Good points! I'll mull it all over and decide - thanks!
     
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  17. Mani

    Mani Active Member

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    So, my "Bloodgood" had two labels on it. The main one was the one in the picture which states "Acer Palmatum Atropurpureum". Does anyone know which nursery these labels come from? I think they are Dutch based.

    There was another label which stated that it was "Bloodgood". When I asked the sales assistant to clarify they said there were many types of Atropurpureum acer it just meant that it was red, and that this particular tree was a Bloodgood. Does that stack up to you?

    It's bugging me that I don't know for sure what tree I have!
     

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  18. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    @Mani, good afternoon Mani, I can see this is bugging you. But I do understand why.
    So many garden centres have their inventory from NL. It is the major supplier to the UK. What garden centre was it ?
    Atropurpureum means Purple btw and not red.
    I have just this second taken a close up of my Atropurpureum leaf, so you can compare.
    I will do the same for my Bloodgood if you like ?
     

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  19. Mani

    Mani Active Member

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    Thanks D.

    It was a garden centre in Kent, they are going to look into it some more so I'll wait to see what they say.........

    A picture of your Bloodgood would be appreciated if you find the time!
     
  20. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    @Mani, I thought I would preempt your request, lol
    Here are 3 close ups of my Bloodgood leaves, just taken.
    I have mine in a lot of shade this year as it was moved in 2019.
    Hope this is of help to you.
     

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  21. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    @Mani, lol sent it as you were typing it looks.
     
  22. Mani

    Mani Active Member

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    @Acerholic Thank you for your preemption! Much appreciated!

    Hmm, it's tricky because some of them look more like your Atropurpureum because they have 7 prongs (?) but the colour is most certainly more akin to your Bloodgood!

    I notice that your Bloodgood has started to turn greenish in the more shaded parts which is what I showed above has happened to mine! If you compare them what would you say? My pics are shown above posted on Saturday at 8.25pm.
     
  23. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    @Mani, the 7 lobes is typical of the Atropurpureum. 'Amoenum' group maples have 5 to 7 lobes btw.
    My Bloodgood is in a 'lot' of shade, so it is losing colour.
    The problem in identifying is where a tree is placed or environment etc etc. If you look at maples in the US and compare them to the UK or EU there is so much difference that you would say they are different cultivars completely.
    If your Bloodgood is in a lot of sun most of the day and turning green then IMO it is probably not a Bloodgood.
    My Atropurpureum is in full sun all day long so holds it's colour, if I were to move it to a lot of shade it would definatly lose those bright reds.
    Your photos from Saturday if in a lot of sun remind me very much of my Red Flash.
    But and here is the but, Bloodgood has shiny green underside of the leaves and yours has, Bloodgood also has finely toothed lobes and yours has.
    The trouble is that placing it in more sun now may not give the deep reds in the leaves this year, but next year if placed in more sun you will get those Bloodgood colours.
    I'm afraid it's a bit of a long game Mani.
     
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  24. Mani

    Mani Active Member

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    @Acerholic Thank you!

    When I purchased the tree it was in full sun in the nursery and there was no sign of green but it had been scorched. Since it's been with me only the top of the tree has received full sun and there is no green being shown there. The only green is in the lower leaves deep inside the tree which I would describe as very shaded. It's taken 3 weeks to get that way. I didn't realise about the underside of Bloodgood leaves being green and that they are finely toothed. That along with the fact that in full sun there was no green gives me more comfort.

    Based on this post, Bloodgood's will turn green in shade and golden if given excessive amounts of light: Why is my "bloodgood" turning green?

    So, I guess the ultimate test would be to put it in full sun and see if it turns golden - as you have suggested it's a long game!

    I'll wait to see if the garden centre comes back to me with anything useful. I think I need to invest in a reference book!
     
  25. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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