Bargain Hunting

Discussion in 'Maples' started by webwolf, Jan 26, 2005.

  1. webwolf

    webwolf Active Member 10 Years

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    Location:
    Australia
    Hi,
    Yes I had to buy more maples and could not resist a bargain. But of course the labels where missing or completely wrong, so that I rely on the forums knowledge to identify them if possible.
    The first two pictures are from a plant with orange bark and beautiful red/green sometimes varigated leafs. (it was labelled a red dissectum).
    I tend to think that I bought a Sango Kaku or Orange Bark but the leafs did not look the same than on the pictures I could download.
    The other one is obviously a varigated dissectum. I went through every possible picture on that Dutch maple side ( Elgin?) but could not find a matching picture.
    Can anyone help?
     

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  2. mjh1676

    mjh1676 Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    Second tree: A.p. Toyama nishiki
    This has become a more common green and white verigated dissectum here, that often shows some pink. It is also very possible that you have an older form of verigated dissectum, but I would not be qualified to make that I'd without a bit more research.

    The first tree could be Sango kaku, but there are some things about it that confuse me. I'll look at some photos and get back to you. Some seedlings of red barked maples have been grown and propagated, as that is always and option.

    MJH
     
  3. Keeb's

    Keeb's Active Member

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    Location:
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    Wolfgang,

    I'm not even close to being qualified enough to help you ID either of the two, but I must say I do like the second one. Don't you just love a bargain! Where do you buy your plants? I'm always keen for a bargain or two.
     
  4. webwolf

    webwolf Active Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    The best supplier of named JM's downunder I found to come from RARAFLORA in Berri Victoria
    regards
    Wolfgang
     
  5. Keeb's

    Keeb's Active Member

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    Location:
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    Mate,

    Do they have a web site or e-mail account or address to get a brochure?
     
  6. mjh1676

    mjh1676 Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    Wolfgang:

    I attached a couple photos of my Toyama nishiki this past fall. Believe it or not, I have had that little guy for two years now. It has not been a strong grower, but it may just need to establish a little better--there was also the incident were a nearly killed it all the way back to the understock, but it is making a good recovery considering. I think the leaf shap is pretty similar and the coloring on yours looks about right, although I see a bit more pink in mine.

    I might also add that the lack of pink in your tree might make it more likely to be Acer plamatum dissectum veriegatum, as similar tree. This tree shows mostly white verigation with very limited pink, which seems to be the case in your tree. Pink is much more prevalent in Toyama nishiki.

    Still thinking on the first tree, but it doesn't look like Sango kaku and being the faintness of the red color, I might hesitate to classify it as a red or colored bark maple.
    MJH
     

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  7. webwolf

    webwolf Active Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    to mjh,
    I went on a site called http://www.worldplants.com/laceleaf.htm and the Toyama nishiki on the large picture looks very close to mine.
    Thanks
    to Paul,
    Raraflora PO Box 39 Berry NSW 2535
    Tel 02 44486034 ?
    fax 02 44486034
     
  8. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
    San Joaquin Valley, California
    Wolfgang:

    The whole purpose of the books on Maples is to better
    acquaint us to these plants should we decide to grow
    them. The art of growing these Maples will vary from
    locale to locale. With so many different Maples to
    choose from there is no way an author can tell us
    everything we need to know in order to better select
    them for purchase or to define how to grow them
    depending on our locations. What works well in
    Central to Northern Oregon can differ greatly in
    Southern Oregon, for example.

    If you spend some serious time online looking at web
    sites looking, peering at Maples you had better see a
    large variance in what people are calling these Maples.
    I can understand the problems you had in trying to
    better ascertain what your Maples are from the online
    photos. It helps to know what these Maples look like
    in a growing season to better know when the photos were
    taken. If we know the Maple cultivar well enough we
    can know just by the perusual photo whether the Maple
    is right or not. This takes a lot of time invested in the
    study of Maples and from seeing many Maples to make
    a correlation that should but not always be true of the
    plant no matter where it is grown.

    Then there is what repotting or new soil or cyclic or
    any kind of fertilization will do to the Maple that
    can indeed confuse us so much that we may not be
    able to know what we have in a variegated form until
    later in the growing season. For one of your mystery
    Maples it is something that is very common. I know
    as I have that same exact Maple, same form also, that
    I bought years ago from Berkeley Hort.

    The dissectum Maple is one that cause much consternation
    as even the Maple that is closest to being right online does
    not show us all that we need to see of it to make an accurate
    comparison to your Maple. There are many examples of
    the name of your Maple online and I wish I did not have
    to be the person to write this but so many of those Maples
    are misnamed. Even in one of the books I mentioned in
    the Blurb City thread the description of your Maple and
    another Maple were listed backwards. It was by accident.

    So, with all the above in mind and considering I know what
    you have as I have one and have been around the dissectum
    form for almost 25 years I will now tell you what you have.

    The Palmatum shaped leaf Maple is the same form I have.
    I know of at least three forms of this Maple: Orido nishiki.

    The dissectum that you have and it is a true Japanese form
    as opposed to the European form is: Toyama nishiki.

    You have a good "eye" for Maples and I hope you keep
    up your keen interest but please do invest in the books
    as they will provide you a better overall supplement
    than all save a couple of online web sites. The Esveld
    and the Ganshukutei web sites are still my favorite Maple
    web sites to look at and study online.

    444, that is a good number I guess. This will do it for a
    while. Too much work to do and I am getting too close to
    burn out on writing posts.

    Later gator.

    Good luck Wolfgang!

    Jim
     
  9. webwolf

    webwolf Active Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    Thanks Jim,
    and I hope you will not give up posting valuable information to this group.
    Wolfgang
    PS: I ordered 'Maples of the World' from Amazon.
     
  10. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    Hi Webwolf:

    I am just going to take a break for a little while,
    that's all. I have an issue to sort out and then
    I will be fine.

    Your Orido nishiki will yield more variegation
    in time. For me I get my best coloring in the
    early Spring and during mid to late Summer.
    The more vigorous the growth we get, the less
    variegation we will see. This Maple can take
    heat real well as long as it gets ample water
    and is protected from hot afternoon winds
    where I am.

    Glad you ordered one of the books.

    Best regards,

    Jim
     

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