Banana Trees

Discussion in 'Indoor and Greenhouse Plants' started by Junglekeeper, Dec 20, 2011.

  1. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    I was of the impression that it is futile to try to grow a banana tree indoors as the conditions necessary would be difficult to duplicate. Not only that but I thought their size would be a problem. Then I saw the story of this woman's success: Growing Bananas in the north?
    The tree in the picture is healthy and bearing fruit. I am amazed. Anyone know what variety of banana it is? Has anyone also had success growing these trees indoors?
     
  2. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Nettie's banana is a 'Super Dwarf Cavendish', and yes, it is entirely possible to grow and fruit bananas indoors. I've done it myself (in Edmonton, no less), and I have friends in Wisconsin, New Jersey, Oslo, and Moscow who have done the same.

    The main factor is finding a cultivar that's the right height for your ceilings - the dwarf cultivars are usually most suitable. Apart from SDC, Dwarf Cavendish, Dwarf Red, Dwarf Namwah, and Dwarf Orinoco are all suitable for indoor growing, and if you're lucky enough to have very high ceilings there's also Ice Cream, Gran Nain, and Saba. After that, it's all about patience and feeding.

    Also, just to clarify, bananas aren't trees. They're giant herbs - what you'd look at as a trunk is properly a pseudostem made up of tightly packed petioles. (Nitpicker hat off.)
     
  3. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    So then it would be a cultivar of Musa acuminata. I see there are a number of Cavendish cultivars including 'Cavendish Super Dwarf'. I'll have to do some research on these plants. I thought they needed high humidity levels. Thanks, lorax.

    Yes, I'm aware they're not trees but, like most people, will continue to use the vernacular in referring to them (in spite of my own nitpicker hat). :)
     
  4. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Yup, the Cavendish group are triploid sports of M. acuminata. Some of the others, however, also have M. balbisiana genes in 'em.

    They definitely don't require high humidity - I'm growing them up here in the altitude desert and they're exceeding my expectations (even though everybody I know thinks I'm nutso for even trying it.)
     
  5. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    From what I've read so far, Super Dwarf appears to be the most suited to the limited space of an indoor environment. I get a feeling it's the only dwarf variety available in my area. Any idea what its fruit tastes like? How does it compare to the Cavendish in the stores?
     
  6. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Any banana grown to maturity on the plant is going to taste far better than shop-bought bananas harvested weeks before they are mature.
     
  7. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    As Michael says, infinitely superior. This is partially because you've got complete control over your plant's conditions, but more largely because when you've got your own bananas, you harvest them finger by finger from the bunch, as they ripen.

    Also, in BC most of what you're finding in the stores, both Dole and Chiquita, is Gran Nain, not Cavendish at all - true Cav has a superior texture.

    Bunch-ripened fruit is always superior to what's at the supermarket, which was picked green, treated with fungicides, shipped in reefer containers, then ethylene gassed in the city of sale to ripen it up. Small wonder not so many folks like bananas - they've never really eaten one.
     
  8. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    Really? I thought pretty much all commercial bananas are Cavendish with Gros Michel being its predecessor before being wiped out. Of course there are other varieties in specialty stores but it's much less common. I've seen baby bananas in yellow and in red. Do you know which varieties those are?
     
  9. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Nope. Almost all commercial bananas belong to the Cavendish subgroup of cultivars, which describes AAA cultivars with certain characteristics (durable in shipping, slightly mealy flesh, yellow when ripe, plants have sturdy brown-flecked pstems, resistance to TR1 of Fusarium Wilt, etc). Gran Nain is a member of the Cavendish subgroup.

    Gros Michel belongs to its own subgroup (and it's not extinct, just not viable anymore in monoculture plantations) along with Williams, Cocos, Highgate, and Lowgate. These are all superior bananas to just about anything in the Cavendish subgroup (with the exception of the plant variously known as Jamaican or Cuban Red, which is amazing fruit if you can find it - large, red-skinned bananas with creamy golden flesh and a strong vanilla-banana custard texture and flavour.)

    The tiny yellow- and red- skinned bananas belong to the Sucrier subgroup (AA; they're the diploid seedless sports); the yellows are likely the cultivar 'Nino' or 'Orito', while the reds are likely 'Pisang Raja Udang'
     
  10. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    I must have read something like, "all commercial bananas are descended from the Cavendish variety" and conveniently dropped "descended from" in my memory. I have much to learn about bananas. Thanks, lorax. I'll have to keep my eyes on bananas to try at the market.
     
  11. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Shoot, JK, you're in Vancouver. Go to the oriental markets! They'll normally have Saba, Orinoco, and a couple of types of plantain as well.
     
  12. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    You're right but I don't think the variety of banana is ever advertised or known at the store.
     
  13. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    You're also right. Saba are triangular and golden yellow, often with black spots on the skins by the time they get to Canada (at least, the ones in Alberta were that way); Orinoco are larger, square to pentangular, and lemon yellow.

    Plantains, on the other hand, are always at least labeled "Plantains"
     
  14. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    Aren't plantains meant to be cooked and not eaten out of hand?
     
  15. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Depends on their level of ripeness. There are a couple of types of "plantain" down here, notably Maqueño and Limon, which are considered plantains when green and dessert bananas when ripe. Saba, one of the types I told you to look out for, is technically a plantain when green.

    The main difference between what we call "banana" and what we call "plantain" is the presence of two groups of M. balbisiana genes in the kerotype. (ie ABB type plants are typically called plantains). The higher percentage of Balbisiana gives the fruits a higher starch content realtive to their sugars. However, the division is entirely arbitrary. I call certain dessert bananas plantains because I perceive too much starch in them; others call things I consider to be dessert bananas plantains because they're traditionally cooked (Seda, a very sweet banana similar to true Cavendish, is a prime example of this.)
     
  16. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    So I recently tried some Nino and burro bananas. The baby nino bananas seemed drier and softer than the regular store bananas. The burro bananas - I think they're the same as Orinoco bananas - were somewhat crisp and bland when not fully ripe. The flavor improved greatly when they were ripe and very soft to the touch. I liked these better than the ninos; they're cheaper too. I also have an unnamed plantain that I have yet to try. I'll also wait until that starts to turn black and soft to the touch before tasting.
     
  17. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Ninos (from the AA Sucrier subgroup) are very difficult to ship and store properly, which results in a less than ideal result in northern markets - I can tell you from personal experience that when they're fresh off the bunch, they're quite firm and creamy with no hint of dryness.

    Burro is from the same subgroup as Orinoco (AAB Bluggoe), and you're bang on - they're best when the skins are black.
     
  18. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    There was a basketful like that at the store today. Sadly I suspect most people would not realize they're good like that and will be thrown out by the employees.
     
  19. cagreene

    cagreene Active Member

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    just a question, if ya'll don't mind. I have been saving seeds from bananas i have bought in our health food store here on salt spring island,bc. my question is, how can i tell if they are viable, and how do i get them to germinate? I do have a 60x-300x scope for inspecting the seeds, and an incubator as I am a organic mushroom and cricket farmer. I have hot house conditions for my mushroom/insect farm, set at three different temperatures for the stages of my mushroom/crickets growth and development, and I keep many tropical plants through out my insect farm, both for ambiance and sanity, as I use multiple lights to mimic the sun throughout my set up. is it possible to grow bananas from fresh seeds? thank you for any help, as i don't want to destroy my seeds!
     
  20. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    I'm really sorry to tell you this, cagreene, but if they came from "edible" bananas, those seeds are vestigial and not viable. If they're anything smaller than about the size of a green pea, they're not going to sprout no matter how good the conditions are - and you'd know if you bit into a banana with viable seeds, because they generally produce a couple of hundred in each fruit; it would be like chewing buckshot. (I can tell you this from personal experience with Musa dasycarpa, which is "ornamental" but which has delicious if seedy fruits).
     
  21. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    This has evolved into a fruit tasting thread. Anyway I ended up sampling all the bananas (conveniently) listed in Six Most Popular Types of Bananas. The apple banana is the most delicious of the bunch; it did indeed have the flavor of strawberry. The burro banana was also quite good. The red banana didn't taste too much different from the Cavendish. The Nino bananas were cute but the taste was not special.
     
  22. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Then the red wasn't properly ripe, nor were the Ninos. Fully and properly ripe reds (uniformly red with hints of purple on the skin) have a flavour akin to gourmet vanilla custard; Ninos (AA Sucrier) we talked about above.

    Plus, that article kind of has its facts off.... ALL bananas, and I mean all of 'em, are native to Asia, particularly the Malaysia/India/China area. Those Nino bananas they're saying are native to Colombia? Nope, those are originally called Pisang Mas, and are from the forests of Malaysia. They were brought over by Portuguese traders. Same goes for the Apple banana (Manzano) - native to Malaysia, moved to Polynesia through trade, spread from Hawaii to South America.... Also, Cavendish aren't the Chiquita bananas. Those are Gran Nain, and Chiquita is the only producer of that cultivar. Cavendish are Fyffes, Dole, Turbana, and other large companies.
     
  23. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    With the reds (and ninos) I waited until the skin had turned partly black and the fruit was soft; some were on the edge of fermenting. I didn't notice any red coloration in the flesh. Could it be the fruit was harvested too early?
     
  24. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    That's often the case, sadly. Once a red banana is ripe it's very delicate, and doesn't ship well. Hence they're normally harvested quite green (at the stage where a Latino or Malay would consider them to be plantains) and then gas ripened. (Here's an interesting article on how bananas are handled in the US.) As anybody who's ever eaten tree-ripe anything knows, the force-ripened will always pale in comparison.

    In the case of reds, the beta carotene that gives them their distinctive colour and flavour doesn't fully develop until they've begun to ripen on the stem, which means that a Rosado here in Ecuador will be pinker, more aromatic, and rounder of flavour than one purchased in Canada (even if they came from the same plantation - the harvesting methodology of export bananas precludes a tasty product.)
     

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