Anyone know anything about "Green Lace?"

Discussion in 'Maples' started by rufretic, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. rufretic

    rufretic Active Member

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    I purchased this tree from Menards labeled "Green Lace." I have purchased some other not so common cultivars from Menards, "Orangeola", "Autumn Moon" and "Waterfall" to name a few and they all seem true to form. I can't find any info on "Green Lace" and the reason I'm looking for info is because it doesn't seem to have the normal dissectum weeping form. It looks nothing like any of my other dissectums and seems to almost be growing upright. All the new growth is errect and no signs of weeping so far. The leaves were pretty typical but I didn't pay close attention because I didn't notice the odd form until after all the leaves were gone. They had a dark green in summer and turned yellow in fall which is also pretty typical of the green dissectums. I might of thought it might be a seiryu but I have two of them and they resemble this tree in no way so I'm just thinking this is actually a "Green Lace" but I just can't find any info about it.

    I'd like to know what this tree might grow into and if it will continue to have a different look to it than my other green dissectums, "Viridis" & "Waterfall."

    Here is what mine looks like. If you know anything about this cultivar please share.
     

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  2. ndynslvr

    ndynslvr Member

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    Upright, green dissectum?

    Isn't that a characteristic of seiryu or something?
     
  3. rufretic

    rufretic Active Member

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    Yes, it is but you missed the part where I said I have two seiryu and this tree looks nothing like them. Bark color, leaf size, leaf color in summer and fall, all different from this tree.
     
  4. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with Green Lace, but I agree with you, the overall growth habit does not lend itself to being a dissectum in any way... Since pictures can be deceiving, how tall is the tree and how broad the crown? Do you happen to have pictures of the tree when it was in leaf, and maybe a close up of the leaves? That might help narrow down what cultivar it is.

    Edit: Just googled Emerald Lace and found this picture http://dirtythoughtsagardeninglife.blogspot.com/2010/08/on-instincts-or-anatomy-of-decision.html... If, in fact, the tree the author is talking about and has pictured is a Green Lace, then it looks kind of upright-ish to me. Maybe because it's still younger and hasn't developed the really long branches to start weeping down?? And, now that I'm looking at some of the other pictures from the search, it almost looks (to my untrained, inexperienced eye) that the cultivar, while still a weeper, isn't as heavy a weeper as some of the other dissectums. Maybe others who have this cultivar, or experience with it, can chime in to confirm or refute my thoughts. :)
     
  5. rufretic

    rufretic Active Member

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    Unfortunately I didn't get any pics before all the leaves were gone. The tree is probably over 4' tall and about 3' wide.

    You bring up some good points. I looked into "Emerald Lace" and it seems to match my tree other than the red fall color, mine was yellow. It is planted in near full shade though so I'm not sure if that could possibly make for more of a yellow fall. Vertrees 4th edition has both trees listed but doesnt say much about the form of "Green Lace" other than "graceful pendulous shape" and "this cultivar grows into a wide, mushroom-shaped mound." I does say it has yellow fall color but other than that I think my tree matches the "Emerald Lace" description better. "It is a much deeper green than most" and "forms an irregular semiupright" both match my tree.
     
  6. JT1

    JT1 Contributor 10 Years

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    My wife's Acer palmatum 'Emerald Lace' is in full sun and it was mostly red with some orange this fall. Unfortunately, I can't find any good pictures with leaves, so I snapped a pic this morning. I think it's about 4 years old. It was never staked, so it does not have the perfect trunk like yours, but it is mostly upright.
     

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  7. rufretic

    rufretic Active Member

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    Thank you for the pic. It pretty much rules out mine being mislabled and actually being 'Emerald Lace' because the bark color isn't even close, mine is a bright lime green and yours looks to have a redish color. Mine is probably 'Green Lace' as it was labled. It must not be very common considering there isn't much info on it. I guess if no one has it here, I'll just have to wait and see what it does.
     
  8. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    It sounds similar in habit to 'Green Globe', which also has green bark on the shoots.
     
  9. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    There are two unrelated green dissectums
    that have been sold as Green Lace in the
    last few years. The old original plant came
    from Fratelli Gilardelli in Italy. Essentially the
    same growth habit as Viridis and Ao washi
    no o of Japan - spreading and mounding.
    Meaning they are wider than tall and do
    mound up. An Esveld web site photo of
    online old shows the mounding. There has
    been an upright form with smaller and much
    more feathery leaves that has been sold out
    of Oregon that has been sold as Seiryu but
    has also been sold as Green Lace. It is my
    opinion that only the Fratelli Maple is the right
    Green Lace and dates back to around 1980.
    Precedes the other Maple by no less than
    twenty plus years in Oregon.

    We have to remember that Viridis has a
    whole group of different green dissectums.
    It was Fratelli nursery with some outside
    collaborative help that conducted much of
    the separating out of the different forms that
    were once considered as being part of the
    Viridis group and were sold as being Viridis
    for many years. As far as those Viridis group
    plants such as Green Globe and others that
    have been selected out, propagated and sold,
    I would be hesitant to buy anything from a US
    source that did not have a European sourcing
    track record to it, if you want the right plant for
    Green Lace and Green Globe as examples.
    I learned of and knew the latter plant as being
    Viridis Green Globe long before the shortened
    newer name came about.

    Oddly enough the Shinzen Garden near me
    has an upright form sometimes sold as Green
    Lace by some nurseries in Oregon (which it is
    not the European Maple) in their landscape
    that came to them from Mr. Koto Matsubara
    (I also have this same form that came to Koto
    and his Maple came from Japan long before
    Oregon had this Maple and feel that it is a
    variant form of Seiryu at this time). The leaves
    are much daintier and noticeably shorter in
    lobe length than a typical Seiryu and if you
    want to get technical this Maple and Seiryu
    do not always have the same number of lobes.
    The Fall colors are not even close to being
    the same as the old form Seiryu but the
    Fall colors of the second Green Lace are
    consistent with the golden form of Seiryu
    but without the golden colored leaves in
    the Spring. If you look at the close up
    photo with the black background of the
    Kleim Seiryu Maple in the Vertrees
    second edition book you will see some
    of the golden coloration in the newest
    growth nearer the bottom of the photo.
    Imagine the golden color on all of the
    leaves in that photo and then you will
    have a better idea what the golden
    form can look like for leaf color.

    With the upright growth habit of the
    Maple in question it is not the Green
    Lace from Italy. Could very well be
    the unrelated Seiryu form variant that
    I have. The Oregon Green Lace plant
    can be trained young to look like an
    upright Maple in appearance for resale
    (for a while).

    Jim
     
  10. JT1

    JT1 Contributor 10 Years

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    Hi Jim,

    Thank you for sharing your experience. If you ever write a book on the history of Japanese maple cultivars introduced to the US, or any book; I will be the first to buy it. But for now, thank you for sharing your knowledge and for another great history lesson.
     

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