Any guesses?

Discussion in 'Plants: Identification' started by pmurphy, Jul 8, 2022.

  1. pmurphy

    pmurphy Contributor

    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    740
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    This plant has been growing in my covered garden for several years but - like a lot of things - got really big this year. I did not purchase this plant but I do like to grow unusual plants and have tried many from seed. Unfortunately I also have a habit of reusing the soil from these seed pots in the covered garden if the seeds don't germinate within a year or so, so this plant could literally be anything! FYI, the covered garden will get very warm so semi-tropical plants (which I have tried growing) can over-winter without issue.

    There are several of these plants with the tallest being about 1 M tall and the stalks are quite prickly. It appears as if its trying to flower but it did the same thing last year with no open blossoms. They will die back each year and regrow from the roots in spring.

    Any guesses?

    IMG_8137.JPG IMG_8139.JPG IMG_8141.JPG IMG_8142.JPG

    UPDATE
    I have attached several photos that include the leaves...

    IMG_8137R.jpg IMG_8138.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2022
  2. 8Peonies

    8Peonies Active Member

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Don't have a clue as to the plant but very interesting but will await to hear from the experts. Great adage to keep in mind when things don't go smoothly or seem close-ended. Thanks!
     
  3. Eric La Fountaine

    Eric La Fountaine Contributor Forums Moderator 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    235
    Location:
    sw USA
    Maybe an Abutilon?
     
  4. pmurphy

    pmurphy Contributor

    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    740
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    No, unfortunately its not abutilon (I actually have some that grew from seed) - the leaves and spiny stem are not right. Also if an abutilon dies back during the winter it will leave a woody stem, these plant die back to the ground.

    I've been trying to go back through the list of seeds I've purchased over the last 6 years but there are a lot of shady sellers on eBay - they claim one thing and send you something entirely different (which is why I have a limit as to what I will pay for seeds on eBay and take my chances)
     
  5. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

    Messages:
    10,212
    Likes Received:
    1,921
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC Canada
  6. Silver surfer

    Silver surfer Generous Contributor 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,952
    Likes Received:
    291
    Location:
    PERTHSHIRE. SCOTLAND.UK
    Please can you add more images when the flowers open.
    Interesting.
     
  7. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

    Messages:
    10,212
    Likes Received:
    1,921
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    And the leaves - are they all like that, sessile - no stems, just on the main stem where the flower branches are? Are there branches that have more leaves? Any palmate, or palmately veined leaves?
    I'm looking right now at Malva setigera. Galleria della Flora - Malva setigera (actaplantarum.org).
     
  8. pmurphy

    pmurphy Contributor

    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    740
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I have added some more photos, including close ups, to hopefully help with the identification:

    The plants have most of the leaves on the lower 1/3 of the stem, as you go higher they become smaller - there are no leaves on the "branches". The largest leaves are about 10cm long and about 4cm at the widest point. There are also several "branches" with multiple buds on the lower half of the stem and single buds higher up. The entire plant is covered with fine spines, including the buds, which are a pale yellow to white in color.
    I'm hoping the buds will open but last year they never progressed any further than you see in the photos (perhaps due to the heat dome??).

    It should also be noted that the buds seem to be larger and more developed at the top of the plant and the tips of the "branches".

    IMG_8326.JPG IMG_8328.JPG IMG_8329.JPG IMG_8330.JPG IMG_8334.JPG
     
  9. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

    Messages:
    10,212
    Likes Received:
    1,921
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Pl@ntNet comes up with Helminthotheca echioides , bristly oxtongue, but only 25% confidence;

    however, its second choice, at only 6% likelihood, is Campanula medium, which in its first few photos, looks much more than 6% likely to me. If you query that on that site, you get those fat purple bells that I thought might be what I included in my July 2022 in the Garden posting. But on the page of initial suggestions, it shows these photos for C. medium as likely matches for the two of your photos that I selected for the search.
    https://bs.plantnet.org/v1/image/o/926fb55346489a00b0207e070b992c18b6a2a07b
    https://bs.plantnet.org/v1/image/o/198c8324979a1b83410e8b0989e497ed6d9eab38
    https://bs.plantnet.org/v1/image/o/743d7d9e7e1981aab6949036356ec94714dea865
    https://bs.plantnet.org/v1/image/o/be2fa18f8e85c51d45a40a69fca18dd70d27c4eb
    and then it has this one
    https://bs.plantnet.org/v1/image/o/461c80fb4b5de4be3d062dcb00d6f2027d9f1250
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2022
  10. pmurphy

    pmurphy Contributor

    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    740
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Thank you Wendy,
    I must admit that the first image looks very similar but there are too many dissimilarities to confirm its identify at this time. I did a google search for all Helminthotheca varieties but most of the images are the same as H. echioides.
    But there are a couple of things I noted in comparison; the stalk on my plants are pretty straight as are the "branches" which come off the stalk at almost a 90 degree angle. And all the flower buds nod down, they are not upright.

    I guess all I can do is wait and hope the buds open in order to pin it down 100% - and hopefully its not too invasive.
     
  11. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

    Messages:
    10,212
    Likes Received:
    1,921
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    All those links in posting #9 are Campanula medium. I can see now that none of them says that. I gave up on Helminthotheca right away.
     
  12. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

    Messages:
    10,472
    Likes Received:
    544
    Location:
    Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Michauxia campanuloides?
     
    Tyrlych likes this.
  13. pmurphy

    pmurphy Contributor

    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    740
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I think we might have a winner!

    I can't find many images showing close ups of unopen buds and stalk/leaves but from what I have found I believe this could be the plant - I did get some seeds privately from a gentleman in Greece back in 2018 but m. campanuloides wasn't on my requested list, perhaps some got mixed with what I received.

    I'll post photos once the flowers open to confirm, info says they should flower summer - fall.
     
    Margot and wcutler like this.
  14. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

    Messages:
    10,472
    Likes Received:
    544
    Location:
    Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    I saw the first flower on one of the plants in our alpine garden just this afternoon.
     
    Silver surfer likes this.
  15. pmurphy

    pmurphy Contributor

    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    740
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I think we have a confirmed ID....Michauxia campanuloides
    (the flowers are just starting to open and are about 10cm wide)

    IMG_8493.JPG IMG_8485.JPG IMG_8483.JPG
     

Share This Page