Anthurium seed. A BIG word of caution!

There is now a seller on a major auction site who is offering over 100 species of very rare seeds for sale. Many are Anthurium species so rare even the vast majority of major collectors and sellers do not have them or have never been able to have a plant produce seeds. Notices published today on Aroid l make it positively known the seller is using copyright protected photographs taken from a variety of websites to sell these "seeds". Bottom line, at least a bunch of the photos are stolen.

It is extremely likely this is a hoax. The opening price is so low it is obvious the seller is attempting to start a bidding war. There is already one batch of seeds of an unknown species (who knows what it is) that are now at well over $1200.00 US! Those seeds may be a true species but they may just as well be a hybrid. And, although the seller indicates they are wild collected, they are being offered from a country where Anthurium DO NOT grow naturally. The genus Anthurium is found ONLY in Mexico, Central America, South America and the West Indies. Despite numerous claims now posted on the internet, it does not grow naturally anywhere in the Pacific, Asia or Africa. Those seeds may have been collected in the wild, but if so, they were collected from a plant someone placed in that rain forest!

Unless you are a trained botanist it is almost impssible to tell the species of an Anthurium by looking at a seed! I'm curious, where did this seller get their training to know for certain what seed species they are offering? Since it will take you close to 2 to 3 years to even have a possibility of knowing if the seeds you receive actually are the species described the seller(s) could easily be long gone before you find out you did not receive what you were bidding on. Seedlings of all Anthurium look almost identical! Although we have no way of positively knowing, numerous well known aroid collectors suspect this is a hoax. A fraud. You could easily be paying $30 per seed, or more, for a common species. Sure, you may get an Anthurium seed. But are you truly getting the species you think you are buying?

The seller of the 100 plus auctions is brand new to the auction site and is from a region bordering Europe and Asia. It is highly suggested you use extreme caution before bidding on any of these auctions. The seller has almost a zero track record!

Bidder, beware!

 

Post a bid of "one gallon of snake oil" on each of the auctions. That might make other bidders think again . . .

 

Wish I could!

 

I just looked carefully down the list of "seeds" offered. At least one species is so rare even botanists have been searching for a specimen since 1989. One top aroid botanist is now in South America trying to find it again. I wrote an article which publicized the name of this plant with the help of that botanist. Although the photo appears to be of the the real plant, I have sincere doubts anyone could be selling seeds from that species. I have a strong suspicion that if the seeds of that species were truly available, even some major botanical gardens would be bidding on them! And the starting bid is just a couple of dollars! Use caution.

 

did you report the stolen pics? what about reporting what you've just stated here? if something is obviously a scam, the site will want to know about it!

 

Yes? I also sent notes to those that I know who own the photographs. So we shall see!

 

those whose pics were used should definitely make reports.

besides the whole scam thing, if they really do have these seeds, the whole endangered' issue should close it right down...

i hope no one is silly enough to fall for it until it IS shut down!

 

Regrettable, but the demand for rare Anthurium seeds is so high right now it is almost certain some will take the bait. I just didn't want any of the good users of this board to get scammed on this one.

At least one person I am now aware of has filed a report but the ad is still up with that person's photos. I guess we shall see if eBay really does follow through on this kind of stuff. As for endangered species, there is a different seller who is selling at least one species that actually is on the endangered species list! They are not identifying it as "endangered" but it is on the list. According to one of the botanists I exchange mail with, not one person has ever been able to keep that plant alive in captive growth. So these will also soon die and were almost certainly collected in the wild. The seller is no one I know!

 

Several of us have been checking this seller's photos. The vast majority were taken illegally from the pages of the International Aroid Society website. I've asked officers of the organization to file an official complaint with eBay!

 

that's the thing, you've GOT to follow up with issues like this on that site. AND have the appropriate people file complaints. they do follow up with these things - sometimes does take some time tho.

on my ferret forum, one of the members' pics was stolen by someone and they're selling something with the image on it. it took numerous reports by a LOT of people (complaining about the stolen pic) as well as the person who's pic it was making a report to get the auction taken down. pfft, not even 6 months later the seller has it back up again. so, we've made the round of filing reports again. i'll just never understand why people do things like this - bad enough to do it once...but after you've been caught at it??? that's just insane!

 

There's a name for people like that, but I won't say it here!

As a retired commercial photographer, I've had numerous images stolen. One was taken originally for a swimsuit company but was later used by a large number of major advertisers including a large cruse line. My agent was approached by a firm that wanted to use the image exclusively for a year in an ad campaign but refused to pay the fee. They wanted it for next to free. So they hired a photographer and three models to try to duplicate the image. All they did was change the order of the colors of the three swimsuits. My agent sued on my behalf since we had filed a federal copyright on the image. We won the original fee, all court costs, a punitive damage fee and they were required by the court to destroy all their images and cancel their campaign. We were under no obligation to allow them to use my image. It would have been much cheaper if they had just negotiated in the beginning since beside paying the court order the had to pay lawyers.

I detest photo thieves! But you watch. Someone will come along and say I'm petty. After all, it was only a photograph!

 

No this is the same as being a song writer, novelist, painter etc. It's called COPYRIGHT. Petty you are not. Look at the mess the DVD, CD industry is in. You fight for all your worth it's yours after all. Good luck
Liz

 

protecting what is yours is not petty at all!!

 

I agree with Steve, Liz and joclyn its NOT petty. I like to write songs as a hobby and if I heard one of my songs on the radio (lol!!) claimed by someone else I'd be furious.
But with the net it is so easy to save a photo and reproduce. The chances of getting caught are limited, unless you happen to know the actual photo, like aroids, or something you know or are passionate about


Ed ;)

 

I've written this in other threads, but it is quite appropriate here. Anthurium seeds have a very short viability. I receive seeds frequently from growers in Mexico and South America and sometimes collectors in Europe. I rarely get more than a 10% viability of these seeds even after that short of a trip from South America. But just think about it!! If someone really did have seeds of rare Anthurium species, just how many of those seeds will be alive once they arrive?

Since Anthurium DO NOT grow naturally in Asia or Europe or Africa, where is this person getting all those rare seeds? Even if they had them, and personally I doubt it, where did they come from? Does that seller know how to store them? Does that seller know how to pack them? Does that seller even care about anything other than the cash you pay? And if they do, will you get even a 10% viable batch?

When I get seeds from honest-to-goodness experts, I only get about 10% that are viable! And mine sometimes come from the field in South America or Mexico! I pity the poor rich and crazy person who just paid well over $1200 on eBay for 40 seeds of an unknown Anthurium species "collected" wild in the Philippines! There are NO natural Anthurium species "wild" in the Philippines! But he/she will receive exactly what they deserve! And I wonder if they will ever get their money back?

As I said, BUYER BEWARE!

The chances are great you are going to get stung if you buy these "seeds"!

 

Fellow Aroiders,

Many of you know I do a lot of aroid breeding, and have done so since the 1980s. Thus I have learned a lot about the viability and proper care of seeds from Alocasia, Anthurium, Philodendron, Amorphophallus and Caladium over the years. The most important thing I've learned is that many, if not all, of these seeds have short viabilities even under the best of conditions. Therefore I can state categorically that even if the seeds this person is selling are the real McCoy, the chances of any buyer receiving a shipment of viable seeds from this person are slim and none.

Think about it mathematically; if the seeds originate in south Africa, they have to be harvested there then shipped to Turkey. Assuming they are harvested fresh and IMMEDIATELY shipped, figure 5 to 10 days to Turkey! Then, once in Turkey, this person puts the offer on eBay and there's another 5 or 6 days at least for bidding to proceed. Next, once the bidding is complete, the buyer has to pay and the order has to ship, figure another 5 to 10 days before the buyer actually receives the seeds in question. With aroid seeds, they will be lucky to get anything recognizable as a seed in their shipment, much less anything viable.

The pictures make it really tempting to try to get the seeds. But I say, let the buyer REALLY beware on this one! If anyone here decides to try getting some of them anyway, I'm sure a lot of aroiders would love to know how it turns out.

LariAnn Garner
Aroidia Research

 

Boy! Maybe I should say Girl! That makes it clear as a bell. I know for a fact that behind the scenes efforts are being made to shut this seller down. All I can hope is eBay lives up to its word and will follow through with their pledge to protect personal copyright. But if anyone who is reading this thinks they are going to get what they are paying for....... GOOD LUCK!

 

Just had a well known Anthurium grower point out another important thought!

The seller on eBay is charging $1 to ship seeds anywhere in the world. That means those seeds have to be in a plain envelope since a padded envelope would cost more. The mail goes through a "roller" system. Those rollers will crush any seeds in an envelope! All you are going to get, even if the seller has the "real deal" is mush! Is a pile of mush in an envelope worth your bid?

 

For anyone out there still tempted to bid on these supposed "seeds" of "rare" Anthurium, I'd like to share with you my exchange of email with the seller. But first, a bit of background. There is at least one plant on the list of plants being offered that is so rare many have been searching for it for almost 20 years! The photo used was stolen (along with many others) from the International Aroid Society website. This seller is offering 5 "seeds" for about $2 as an opening bid! I'm not going to tell you which plant, but if you've followed my posts on this site you can figure it out. The plant was once on the cover of the International Aroid Society journal and many of us have been trying to find it for years! A botanist is in South America right now looking for the specimen since new information recently became available. And this seller supposedly has seeds of this very rare Anthurium for $2.00???

The seller has now admitted they don't even have any of the seeds offered!

Here is the email exchange:

I asked via eBay email: "I noticed you illegally stole the photo of this plant and many others from the International Aroid Society website. Your infraction has been reported to the officers of the society. I'm curious, do you even know this species is extremely rare? Do you know that there is not a botanical garden in the Unites States that even has one? Do you have this plant? Where did you possibly get seeds of a plant this rare? Makes me wonder? Are you even legitimate? I think I'll report this to eBay as well. Right now!"

And the seller responded:

Hi,
Actually the seeds are at US. I am just a trader not a botanic expert. I buy several seeds through internet and again sell them. The photos and descriptions were sent by the seller. I'm aware of the photos but the seller says that we are not selling mother plants just seeds so the photos are for just to give an idea of the plant, what the buyer should expect from the seeds. Thank you for your interest.
Kind Regards, ladybotany"

Some of this sellers offerings are now up into the hundreds of dollars for 5 "seeds"! Seeds that are likely nothing more than "make believe". Seeds the seller admits they don't even have! So, is anyone foolish enough to bid on seeds the seller admits they don't have? Seeds, some of which are so rare botanical gardens can't get them? From a seller who admits they know nothing about Anthurium species but still calls themselves "ladybotany"? From a seller who will steal photographs in order to make the sale of "seeds" from plants they don't even possess? From a seller that uses a Hotmail address to cover their tracks? From a seller who is not even charging enough in postage to safely pack and ship any seeds at all? From a seller whose only feedback is from things they've purchased, never sold??

If you are still willing to bid on any of these "seeds", I've got a bridge in New York City I'll sell you cheap! You could make a fortune charging tolls to cross that bridge!

This smells exactly like a cleverly disguised scam! And the seller didn't even do enough homework to be clever! This offering is obviously aimed at the people of Indonesia who are willing to pay very high prices for Anthurium plants and seeds. What was it P.T. Barnham supposedly said about a "sucker born every minute"? This one is looking for a bunch of suckers. And they will probably find them unless eBay stops this entire mess! Buyer beware!!

 

What response did you get from ebay, mate? Surely it is in THEIR best interest to have GENUINE sellers with GENUINE products on their site. Surely purchasing seeds would be a risky business also, as I would imagine there would not be much of a difference, to the naked and untrained eye, in birds nest Anthurium seeds?

Ed

 

I now know of 5 individuals whose photos were stolen. All 5 have made a report. That includes officers of the IAS. And as of tonight, all the auctions, with the stolen photos, are still on the system! Many auctions end today! Some ended Sunday night. To be honest, right now, I don't think very much of eBay and their promise to protect against photo theft and punish sellers who do it! It appears corporate greed wins again! Many members of IAS have pledged to call eBay on the hotline number published on Aroid l on Monday morning. A few of the auctions are now up to a figure around $150 but there are bids on every one. And these people are NOT going to get the seeds they expect! We shall see!!

 

eBay just sent a generic message back to all who filed a complaint. Basically, it says they won't do anything! So much for eBay and their policy about protecting against fraudulent use of copyright material!

This seller is now receiving some very large bids. Up to $150 for 5 seeds! She will obviously going to go nuts with this since she now knows she can get away with it and eBay won't do a thing to stop her! And the chances of anyone ever seeing a real live Anthurium seed of the species described is astronomically low!

Anyone know someone who writes newspaper articles? Someone needs to hold eBay's feet to the fire for their broken promises! I know some officers of the International Aroid Society that will gladly give an interview!

 

Well, I hereby publicly apologize to eBay. They just took down over 100 of these auctions! Apparently someone finally read all the emails from the members of the International Aroid Society. Thank you eBay!

 

Thank God for that!! Its amazing what happens when eveyone bands together. Good work Steve and good work IAS!!

 

Amazing that they finally took it off!

I've heard of similar cases where it took lengthy police pressure to take off auctions for known illegal goods (wild birds eggs of endangered species)