Another EM convert

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Gomero, Feb 10, 2009.

  1. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I had not realized that Esveld has also completely switched to EM-based horticulture for all their range of plants (http://www.esveld.nl/codes/engels/eme.htm). EM approach has already being discussed in this forum in a previous thread.

    I can tell you that, based on my longstanding knowledge of Dutch people, when the Dutch adopt something is that it works and is cost-competitive!! and, as the French say, à bon entendeur, salut!


    Gomero
     
  2. jimmyq

    jimmyq Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I am sure this wasn't meant to be derogatory but it is considered not politically correct to stereotype people by their country of origin.
     
  3. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi Paul,

    In fact it is an expression of my admiration for those hardworking people.
    Otherwise I do not care much about political correctedness, it tires me.

    Gomero
     
  4. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    jimmyq,

    I'm persuaded that Gomero's deduction is worth sharing.
    I sense that the Dutch culture is associated with qualities of industry and thrift.


    'Political correctness' is sometimes understood as a played out form of censorship.
     
  5. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    There are certainly some fairly offensive definitions on that page! :/

    I believe "politically correct" first grew out of a movement at some America universities to give equal weight to all cultural perspectives. A laudable goal that was quickly perverted towards academic censorship and hence rapidly developed negative connotations. The wider idiomatic meaning adopted by American talk radio culture is available in many of the Urban Dictionary definitions.

    Such is my recollection, anyway, it seems unoffensive to admire a culture for industry and thrift any more than to admire another for the quality of their cuisine or consumer electronics.

    Back on topic, I'd like very much to "EM" my maples, but I haven't found any source available for mail order in France. Does anyone (Gomero?) know of such?

    Thanks in advance,

    -E
     
  6. FredericB

    FredericB Member

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  7. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    It's just a new term for what used to be called 'being civil' . . . the concept has been around for thousands of years!
     
  8. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I don't know why some individuals ruin threads like this by jumping in with nonsensical statements about "political correctness" or other completely off-topic rants. This thread is about horticulture! Gomero's comments were in no way derogatory or politically off-kilter. They were, in fact, complimentary. We don't need people policing these threads looking for infractions - that's the job of the forum moderators, and I think they do a good job. We need people to share knowledge and intelligence on the subject at hand - in this case EM horticultural practices.

    K4
     
  9. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    EM makes sense to me as a biology vs chemistry strategy for soil health and sustainability. I am doubtful it has a place in long term container culture. I wonder, is anyone advocating EM for that use?
     
  10. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi PtB,

    As far as I know (and from what I have seen in that...... wonderful country, populated by such a........ wonderful people) EM is as good for plants in containers as it is for plants in the ground. In my case I use EM in both cases.

    Gomero
     
  11. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    Interesting Gomero,

    I have my doubts about EM/myco because the containers get so warm and because they are flushed frequently with hose (chlorinated) water. It seems improbable that there could be a population of beneficial micro organisms that could weather the unnatural conditions.
    This season I'm going to try using more chemistry vs biology and see how it goes.

    I think in a nursery situation it is a good practice because the trees are held for shorter periods and conditions can be managed better.

    I wish Esveld was nearby the closest we've got is Pennsylvania Dutch.
    Great fritters and bologna!
     
  12. yweride

    yweride Active Member 10 Years

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    Gomero, in Boskoop, Holland they have so many restrictions on chemicals such as fungicides, insecticides and herbicides. From what i understand they are not even allowed to us Roundup (glyphosate). In the past they had problems with the canals becoming polluted because of the overuse or misuse of chemicals, so they had to enforce these restrictions. Bokoop is so small, but so intensely farmed and everyone shares the canal water in their nurserys.

    These guys are looking for alternative ways to grow healthy plants without using traditional chemicals. In the US i think the days of using these traditional chemicals is limited, we will see EM and others starting to appear here before long.

    Dick van der matt has highly recommended the use of EM too.
     
  13. ashizuru

    ashizuru Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi,

    I would just like to add,for all our friends across the pond, with regard to the benifits of EM, look no further than: emamerica.com

    Ashizuru.......
     
  14. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    Are EMs deployed every time a grower uses compost or compost tea?

    Ashizuru, the emamerica.com seems sketchy. For example:"EM Sea Salt Gold is made from sea water collected from Okinawa's rich ocean during the full moon."
    Have you tried their Personal Protective Jewelery "for protection against EMF fields" ? Is it equally effective for both humans and plants?
     

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    Last edited: Feb 17, 2009
  15. ashizuru

    ashizuru Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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  16. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    PtB

    LOL ;o))))

    I basically agree with you, but it seems to work from what I've seen in Holland, or does the placebo effect also work with plants?.

    To me is like acupuncture: I do not understand it, I do not believe in it but I must admit it works.

    Gomero
     
  17. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    OK, remember folks, EMAmerica is just a distributor. Not the manufacturer. If they happen to distribute other things that may seem more like witch-doctor remedies, it really has nothing to do with the EM product...
     
  18. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    I definitely believe that a harmonic soil biology will give best growing results. I also believe that EM products (approx $17/12oz.) will inoculate and improve many soils. I'm doubtful that they will work in prolonged container culture. Another issue is sort of like the Myco efficacy concern i.e. won't healthy soils already be loaded with Myco and other healthy organisms? If these organisms aren't part of the biology naturally would they be sustainable when introduced artificially?

    I'm just wondering. I'm skeptical but not so much that I wouldn't test it out. Part of my thinking is based on bonsai culture,a permanent container context, where I understand soil biology is not really part of the cultural principles.

    ashizuru, thanks for the second link. I have heard of Dr. Teruo Higa and read a bit about his work. It seems like EM certainly has proved effective in many instances. However I would not be surprised to see a few of the claims surface on Dr. Goldacre's site.

    K4, Dr. Teruo Higa sanctions the ceramics, the bath salts , the probiotic cleanse etc. Do you sense quackery in these EM applications, i do.
     
  19. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Not sure if I would call it "quackery", but oriental thinking, medicine and other practices are chock full of examples that in the west seem a little - well, less scientific than we're comfortable with. Yet many of the homeopathic, herbal and natural remedies and practices they use do produce results, many times to the astonishment of Western scientists. I think the EM product is sound and has ample evidence of effectiveness. We will each have to experiment with it to determine the boundaries or limitations of that effectiveness in our respective circumstances. However, I certainly don't plan on washing my clothes with it or putting it in my toothpaste!
     
  20. ashizuru

    ashizuru Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi P t b, & K 4
    I think it is like most things we do not understand, you have to take it with a pinch of salt, as they say.

    However, I have been using EM1 for about 2 years, making bokashi compost from my kitchen waste and digging it in garden, and using the bokashi juice diluted 1 to 100 with rain water, to feed my kitchen garden, bonsai trees, and all of my various maples, and shrubs that I grow, and you can certainly see the difference in health and vitality.

    In that time, the most stunning result was on my runner beans last year, I grow a variety call emergo, white flowered, and they were most lush and prolific crop ever, and I've been growing beans for 50 years or more, and have never seen such stunning results, I started picking mid July and had my last picking on November 25 th.

    I spray all my trees during the growing season with EM1 diluted 1 to 100, again with clean rain water, once a fortnight, which seems to keep most of the nasties away and seems to improve their overal health,like Gomero said, it seems to work, and as they say, the proof is in the pudding!

    The most authoritative person I know on EM is Dick van der Maat, he is a mime of information, he as said, that you can contact him, if you so wish.

    Ashizuru.....
     
  21. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    Thanks ashizuru,

    Please tell me about your bonsai practices regarding feeding. Do you use chemical fertilizers as well as the EM?

    Also would it be possible to breed more EM-1 by adding a starter to rain water and then some molasses for nourishment?
     
  22. ashizuru

    ashizuru Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi Ptb,

    I have used Rapeseed cake pellets on my trees for years, and have always found it sufficient,the cake it is what is left after rapeseed has been pressed, I expect you have seen the little pellets about an inch across and 1/2 inch thick, you place them in little plastic cages to deter the birds etc. then every time you water a little feed leaches in to the Akadama, of what ever potting soil you may be using. The pellets last about 6 to 12 weeks, some people also spray them with insecticide to keep the flies off, but its a matter of choice, I don't.

    I do try not to use any chemical fertilizer if I can help it.

    Since I have been into the EM thing, I have not stopped using them, I only use the pellets on trees that are in their final pots, and are usually fairly well established, and on the larger specimens maybe 3 or 4 pellets per tree.

    I have found the 1 to 100 bokashi feed, is sufficient for all my seedling maples, and the various other seedlings that I raise each year, also the 1 & 2 old year subjects.

    With regard to making further EM.1 yes you can make your own activated EM.1, you can buy a yogurt maker as they call it for the purpose, and as you say use diluted molasses for a starter etc., if you shop around, you usually get a bargain.

    I also make my own Bokashi bran, from wheat chaff, and impregnate it with Activated EM.1 seal it in a large airtight plastic container and let it ferment for a fortnight, I usually do this in the summer, and when it is ready, I dry it in the sun and it lasts me all year, I use it for making my bokashi compost, or you can feed it to your live stock!

    I hope I have answered your questions,

    Ashizuru.....
     
  23. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    Yes excellent response thank you ashizuru.
     

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