Amagi Shigure problem

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Geezer840, May 6, 2015.

  1. Geezer840

    Geezer840 Active Member 10 Years

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    I and two of my friends each acquired an Amagi Shigure in the fall of 2013. *Last year was the first full year for all of us and all of us experienced a similar problem. *All three trees leafed out fine in the spring but shortly after the leaves were fully formed individual leaves started dying. *The petioles on the leaves turned black and limp and the leaves gradually did the same. *The initial appearance was almost as if they were wet. *The leaves dried somewhat on the tree and then fell off. *The leaf loss did not happen suddenly but throughout the summer. *By the end of summer all three of the trees had very few healthy leaves (I’d estimate no more than 15 - 20 per tree. *Aside from the leaf loss all else seemed fine. *Bud formation by fall appeared quite normal at the nodes where the leaves fell off. *This spring all three of the trees leafed out in spectacular fashion. *Unfortunately all three are now seeing the same symptoms as last year.
    We all have planted numerous maples and the three are all obviously in different locations. *All are correctly planted. *Water certainly isn’t an issue as this spring has been perfect and the last two winters have not had any extremes occurring both years. *In fact I don’t think there were any real extremes either winter. *The leaf loss doesn’t seem to follow any pattern that makes sense. *Leaves seem to droop at the tips of branches, in the middle of branches, towards the bottom, middle and top of the trees. *This spring certainly hasn’t been unusually hot and a our weather in the Pacific Northwest isn’t extreme.
    I’m attaching three photos of my tree. *One is the full tree (great looking!) and two show leaves that are turning black. *You may have to enlarge them to fully see the effected leaves.
    We would really appreciate any diagnosis you may have. *I’ve tried to search the Internet for Amagi Shigure issues with no luck.
     
  2. Geezer840

    Geezer840 Active Member 10 Years

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    Here are photos (I hope)
     

    Attached Files:

  3. banjoboy

    banjoboy Active Member

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    i've had a lot of problems with a lot of my maples but never anything like this. sorry can't help but i'm interested to hear if anyone else can. Could you describe how often you water and how much?
     
  4. Geezer840

    Geezer840 Active Member 10 Years

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    Banjoboy, I water at the time of planting and during our summer dry season. With maples in the ground for more than two years I find that most will make it through dry summers with only watering when there are signs of stress. The only exception is for certain varieties susceptible to leaf scorch which do get more frequent water.
    In this case my two friends each have numerous maples and their watering habits are not the same as mine. We are very fortunate to live in a location with no extreme heat or cold and very ample rain. Our biggest issue is ensuring we have adequate drainage and the location of all three of the Amagi Shigure are well drained.
    You are the only one to comment on this so far. Thanks for your interest. If you have any suggestions of a source I might contact for assistance please advise. I've tried the University of Washington and they offered no help.
     
  5. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    I, too, have no idea what might be going on but I did want to clarify something: From your wording in your initial post, am I understanding correctly that all three trees were purchased at the same time from the same nursery? And if so, I'm guessing all three are roughly the same size/age? Have either of you bought any other trees from this same nursery around the same time? If so, any issues with those? Have you contacted the nursery to let them know what's going on with the trees (ie, have they had any other customers complaining of similar issues with this cultivar or others, especially if bought around the same time as yours)?
     
  6. Geezer840

    Geezer840 Active Member 10 Years

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    Maplesandpapws,
    Andrea,
    I have contacted the seller and let him know of the problem the three of us are having. He said he would look into it but I've not heard back from him. I did not purchase any other trees from him when I got mine and I don't know if the other two individuals did. I do know that in discussions with the others they have made no mention of issues with any other maples. I do talk with them frequently. Between the three of us we have approximately 175 maples and have all had our share of losses but this is a 'first'. At this point we are looking for a good plant internist, hopefully we will not need a plant pathologist. Thanks for your interest.
     
  7. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Do you have a local extension office with any Master Gardeners? While they may not know what's going on, they can probably suggest who would and put you in contact with said person(s) - in your shoes, that's probably what I would do. I could recommend someone with a lot of maple experience, but she's all the way across the country from you, and I think this is something that needs to be seen first-hand (or, at least a fresh sample of affected leaves from the tree in question), not just in pictures.
     
  8. Geezer840

    Geezer840 Active Member 10 Years

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    I will contactoc master gardeners. Thanks for the suggestion.
     
  9. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi Geezer,

    I was thinking about your post earlier, hoped someone would have some advice...

    My sense is that all 3 plants came from the same mother plant as scions, and the mother plant is sick with some sort of viral disease. This is just a guess, and I don't know how you might go about verifying it.

    My Shin chisio seems to go through a similar cycle, if not quite so extreme, with some new growth blackening and falling off. It's the only maple I have that does this, and I've always assumed it was sick in some way. I got it as a 1 yr graft, the others of the batch are quite large now but this one remains pretty small. I know it's not a problem with the cultivar in general, so I've always blamed the parent. ;)

    Sorry I can't offer any real help.

    -E
     
  10. Geezer840

    Geezer840 Active Member 10 Years

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    Thanks for the response.
    I'm taking some samples to our county Master Gardeners center and they have offered to have tests run. I suspect whatever is the cause originated with the grower.
    Tom
     
  11. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    I just had another thought. The most likely person on this forum who might know either what is wrong with your plant, or the cause of what's wrong (if that makes sense; alluding to emery's supposition), would be Mr. Shep. I haven't seen him on in some time, but if you message him, he may reply. To me, it's worth a shot - the man knows enough to write volumes about maples.
     
  12. Geezer840

    Geezer840 Active Member 10 Years

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    Thanks. I will ask him for his advice.
     
  13. marymyers

    marymyers Active Member Maple Society

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    I am having a similar problem. Four trees from the same grower (all planted in the ground, three from last year, one from early this spring) have just wilted and dried up. This is an unusual situation, since trees from other growers all came through our mild winter very well. I am thinking grower in my case.

    Please keep us updated with your findings.
     
  14. Geezer840

    Geezer840 Active Member 10 Years

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    Two trips to the WSU Master Gardener center. First trip with a branch that had two leaf sections starting wilting, one near the base of the branch and a second about midway up the branch (18 inches in total). Second trip with a soil sample they requested.
    I'm told they hope to have results in less than ten days. I'll post what they tell me.
    As an aside, the process was a bit frustrating in that they wanted information that was used for a 'fill in the blanks' form and said they could not use the problem description I had in my original post. The form seemed quite inadequate for getting a good understanding of the problem. Hopefully a laboratory assessment will provide an answer.
     
  15. Geezer840

    Geezer840 Active Member 10 Years

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    Preliminary findings received from WSU:
    The blackened and dead branch and petioles are symptomatic of infection by Pseudomonas bacterial leaf spot and dieback. From the newer damaged tissue, copious bacterial streaming was observed microscopically from these tissues. Tissue has been plated onto sterile laboratory agar to confirm this result. Bacteria typically enter plants through natural openings and wounds, so avoid wounding plants (use care with equipment and pruning, site trees to protect them from winter injury, etc.). Water is also necessary for the establishment of bacterial diseases so keep maple foliage as dry as possible by avoiding overhead watering, water early in the day to allow tissue to dry before night comes, and as practical increase air circulation around the canopy. Refer to the factsheet at WSU Hortsense (http://hortsense.cahnrs.wsu.edu/Public/FactsheetWebPrint.aspx?ProblemId=442 ) for more information and management suggestions. Follow label directions carefully if pesticides are used.

    No discoloration, typical of infection by Verticillium wilt, was observed in the vascular tissue of the branches submitted but wood was plated onto sterile laboratory agar just to confirm this result
     
  16. opusoculi

    opusoculi Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your interesting post and scharing preliminary results from WSU Hortsense ; new for us, their little photo about symptoms on leaves is more appreciated.
     

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