Alternatives to vinegar?

Discussion in 'HortForum' started by propagator, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. propagator

    propagator Member

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    I have used this quite extensively for gravel boulevards but am uncomfortable because of concerns over the residual effect..but my clients insist on weedfree boulevards any better suggestions???
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2010
  2. bob 2

    bob 2 Active Member

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    Re: Vinegar for weed control

    Roundup
     
  3. propagator

    propagator Member

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    Re: Vinegar for weed control

    our municipality has banned herbicides.are you saying there is less residual effect with my old friend roundup
     
  4. bob 2

    bob 2 Active Member

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    Re: Vinegar for weed control

    Yes, that is what I believe from the reports have been reading.

    Banning all pesticides despite evidence from more than 350 federal government scientists is like banning all dancing to stop lap dancing.
    This knee jerk reaction in many communities will come back to haunt the residents big time and soon.
    You can start your own reseach here and pretty much uncover the truth posted on much of the internet.
    http://www.greenspiritstrategies.com/D196.cfm
     
  5. propagator

    propagator Member

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    Re: Vinegar for weed control

    bob 2...thankyou for the input and I appreciate the direction that is going to help continue my education in this new way of thinking and doing
     
  6. bob 2

    bob 2 Active Member

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    Re: Vinegar for weed control

    Propigator, I am a moderate. I have no quarrel with various methods of horticulture when the means justify the ends. Just as botox is a known protoplasmic poison, in proper dilution it becomes a cosmetic enhancement agent.Many useful chemicals have been removed from the environment ,not because they are creating harm but because they have the potential to do so.
    We need to find a balance between getting the job done safely and being the victims of bad science, bad politics or worse yet, eco turf wars.
    Having met and dealt with some of the activists ( anti pesticide types) in this area I have lost all respect for the concept and the people promoting same.

    Cheers
    Bob
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2010
  7. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    If I recall correctly, that editorial received some pushback in the local media. I'll add this on Patrick Moore for some semblance of balance.

    You mentioned education, and I suspect that is ultimately what is going to be needed to convince people that 100% weed-free is too costly to do -- either in terms of financial cost or environmental / social costs.

    Healthy Lawns from Health Canada

    Pesticide Product Information Database (unfortunately, the database seems to be partially down at the moment -- was trying to discern whether acetic acid was registered for use as a pesticide in Canada (and if so, at what concentration -- there are conflicting assertions online) from Health Canada via the Pest Control Products Act)

    EcoClear (by no means an endorsement, but this company claims their product as an alternative (and also makes mention of many Horticultural Vinegars being unregistered / unregulated in Canada))

    As for Round-up, have a read through some search results for [GOOGLE]site:edu roundup[/GOOGLE] and [GOOGLE]site:edu glyphosate[/GOOGLE]. Pretty benign, as pesticides go.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  8. bob 2

    bob 2 Active Member

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    I believe eccoclear uses a combo of 10-30% by weight Acetic acid and Citric acid.
    The material will kill several different plant pests but lacks the systemic toxicity that is necessary for rhizomes such as poision ivy or quack grass for instance.
    In the states they have registered these combinations for more stubborn invasives:
    glyphosate and triclopyr added ( for stubborn brush) or Vinex – just triclopyr with an applicator bottle.

    An article describing the use and application is found here.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/g...16440000&en=dc9ac37bb9de8f34&ei=5087 prompted
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2010
  9. vitog

    vitog Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    I noticed that Organic Gardening magazine recommends industrial strength vinegar as an organic herbicide.
     
  10. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Aye -- and I looked last night. There are some products now using horticultural vinegar that are registered for pesticide use in Canada (though some of the registrations looked very recent -- along the lines of December 2009). So, it seems -- check the label of what you're buying and check the vendor's / manufacturer's sites for information on residual effects.
     
  11. janetdoyle

    janetdoyle Active Member 10 Years

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    Mixed with salt, it removed algae from my roof, and algae and moss from my driveway very adequately. I am no chemist so am not sure about using the salt with it, but that combination was in use in Nova Scotia for paver-stone driveway weed control. Don't hesitate to tell me it's a crazy combination...
     
  12. bob 2

    bob 2 Active Member

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    "This is for anyone here that is currently using these 'natural' herbicide products.

    Please note that many of these vinegar based herbicide products contain significant quantities of sodium chloride or common salt and, if you go around spraying this stuff over many years, you may well render your garden soils saline and unable to sustain your crops. Vinegar/salt is no where near as effective as systemic herbicides like glyphosate, and it is probable that you will need to spray excessive amounts of the vinegar based products to acheive the same effect as glyphosate.Please also note that you are adding significant quantities of a different type salt to your soil that would normaly be present in trace amounts. The salt to which I am refering to is sodium acetate, that you would produce by dissolving bicarbonate of soda in a vinegar.

    Now it is unclear what ecological effects high levels of acetate might have in your soil, and in local water ways if a significant number of people are using these vinegar based herbicide products. Phosphates are relatively harmless but, in the past, we have seen what ecological damage that they can cause when hundreds of thousands of Australians were daily using detergent products that contained phosphates. Acetate may well be in the same boat.

    You can't assume that a garden product is environmentlly harmless simply because it contains common household ingredients. You may in fact be better off carefully targetting your glyphosate via 'cut & paint' or just 'paint' rather than using vinegar."

    http://www.sgaonline.org.au/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=980#p3485
     

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