Identification: Acer x coriaceum

Discussion in 'Maples' started by conifers, Sep 11, 2010.

  1. conifers

    conifers Active Member

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    Dax
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2010
  2. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    This one is also a Field Maple
     
  3. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    yes i agree! x coriaceum is one hybrid between acer monspessulanum and opalus ...
     
  4. conifers

    conifers Active Member

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    I don't own any books about Maples... any thoughts on
    naming(?) and then obviously... I'll have this thread, closed.

    Thanks,

    Dax
     
  5. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Maybe the hybrid was grafted onto A. campestre and the scion failed, to be replaced by rootstock sprouts.
     
  6. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Chiming in with general agreement, it appears to be A. campestre.

    Interesting I looked for a picture also in le Hardy de Beaulieu, he lists the hybrid as pseudoplatanus x mospessulanum, which is inter-series. I wonder if there are distinct forms of x coriaceum. (Not to suggest this is any form).

    -E
     
  7. conifers

    conifers Active Member

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    "The Acer ×coriaceum was identified in person by James "Acer" Harris, who wrote the British book on maples. The label must have been mistyped because it's correct in the database. Sure it has field maple traits, because that's one of the parents. Rez oughta know that, and he probably knows Harris too. It came by seed from an isolated (selfed) cultivated tree that was removed the following year. We have several and they are identical."

    Private Collector
     
  8. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    pag 245 of the book "Maples of the World ":x coriaceum=acer monspessulanum x acer opalus ssp.obtusatum is possible propagate by seed or by graft on acer monspessulanum..hybrid origin Dalmatian coast and Croatia...
     
  9. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    First, by any account A. campestre is not a parent of x coriaceum, as Alex points out. Mr. Harris of course knows this, in spite of the fact that he makes no mention of coriaceum in "The Gardener's Guide to Growing Maples" (Timber Press). Mr Harris is an eminent plantsman and officer in the Society, so is known to many people. That doesn't change the fact that there is no parent here who is a field maple! :)

    MOW in Alex's reference clears up the issue of parentage confusion in the "Illustrated Guide." It further states "Bark gray and smooth, like that of A. opalus." That's clearly not the case in the picture where the bark is corky, like campestre can be in hotter climates.

    The leaves are pictured clearly in the "Illustrated Guide" and appear much more like monspessulanum than campestre as we have here.

    Honestly it's very difficult to make a positive ID from a picture, but there's nothing to suggest this is really x coriaceum and not campestre.

    -E

    P.S. Thanks very much for posting it though, and helping build the forum of species. It's much appreciated in any event.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
  10. conifers

    conifers Active Member

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    You bet guys... thanks.

    Take care,

    Dax
     
  11. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Acer × coriaceum wouldn't be graftable on A. campestre; they're not close relatives. So it couldn't be rootstock sprouts.
     
  12. maf

    maf Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    For reference:
    http://www.botanypictures.com/plantimages/acer%20X%20coriaceum%2001%20NL%20gimborn.jpg
    http://www.botanypictures.com/plantimages/acer%20X%20coriaceum%2002%20NL%20gimborn.jpg

    Maples of the World states:
     
  13. conifers

    conifers Active Member

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    (To Everyone)
    I'm sort of becoming a bit confused as to what threads I [created(2)] [(1)with photos only added to a previous poster] should be deleted or not.
    Please say yes/no to:
    Acer x coriacium
    Miyabei maple
    Montpelier maple

    Sorry, I'm not at all in the know
    and I'm having difficulty if these
    are correct photos. I'm quite
    sure this one needs to be deleted.
    Just make life easy for me will ya, many thanks...

    Dax
     
  14. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    monspessulanum: the pics are fine, no issue, don't delete.
    x coriaceum: wrong maple, do delete
    miyabei: can be confused with campestre. In spite of strong opinions, individual morphological variation can make ID difficult from these photos. I'd leave it, but with a question mark.

    HTH and thanks for trying to clear it up. ;)

    -E
     
  15. maf

    maf Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    That sounds reasonable. Might be a good idea to leave this thread a day or two before deleting so that all who contributed can see the conclusion.

    Thanks to Dax for sharing in the first place.
     
  16. AlainK

    AlainK Generous Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    The photos reminded me of a field maple (?) I have in my garden : same corky bark of some 2-3 yr-old shoots in particular. I mentioned it in this thread :
    http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=52047

    The leaves now are a bit different from the ones I posted in May, but still, they don't really look like most of the field maples I can see around here. I'll post new photos later today...
     
  17. AlainK

    AlainK Generous Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    This page from Tela Botanica :

    http://www.tela-botanica.org/eflore/BDNFF/4.02/nn/179/information

    states it is a hybrid from Acer monspessulanum L. and Acer pseudoplatanus L., as Emrey mentioned above...
     
  18. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Alain, MOW states that the other parent is A. opalus, not pseudoplatanus "as cited mistakenly in some literature" (not a real quote, I don't have MOW handy this minute, but that's the gist of it.)

    I think we can pick MOW as the authority...

    -E
     
  19. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    correct is: opalus subsp.obtusatum ;)
     
  20. conifers

    conifers Active Member

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    Thank you Gentlemen. I'm both on track and have notified
    the owner of these trees of each individual situation - and
    he agrees with you guys.

    I'll ask this thread be deleted and treat the others as suggested.

    Hey thanks again, and you guys know I'm always adding to galleries on the web... this one happens to have Maple Society members and people all over the world, participating.

    I'll be back! ;)

    Dax
     
  21. AlainK

    AlainK Generous Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    You're right: I found the reference after repying to your previous message and indeed, it seems a more convincing presentation. Thanks for putting things straight.
     

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